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Old 01-09-2021, 11:23 PM   #21
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Sorry I don't completely understand what you're saying. I'll take a look at the PDF. I pulled from prior mechanical inspection. I didn't go try to check it on the engine - assumed these were correct. Just looked on the marine survey and it stated the same numbers, but noted that it was from the manual - not readable from the engine.
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
Was able to get more info on the engines today. Model: TG.354 ... Serials: TE20696u545234E and TE20696U547196E
I don't know what "TG.354" means.

But, the serial numbers below make sense to me:

TE20696u545234E
TE20696U547196E

TE: Turbo Perkins 6.354

20696: "Build list number", a number a Perkins dealer can use to pull up the exact parts list for the engine as initial assembled for the application. For example, a marine engine and an industrial (tractor/forklift/etc) engine might have identical long blocks and heads, but different manifolds, oil pans and related parts, and cooling components, etc.

U: Made in the United Kingdom

545234/547196: Serial number

E: Year of manufacturer code, E=1978


A horizontal engine would have begun with TD (naturally aspirated) or TF (turbo) or TY or TZ (6.3544, NA or turbo) -- not TE.


A contra-rotating engine would have had an X by the country code.

So, unless there is more information such as a conversion upon rebuild, I think we are dealing with a normal, naturally aspirated, vertical (not horizontal) original 6.354 engine.
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:09 AM   #23
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Ah - ok, perfect. Thanks so much for the clarification. I bet the TG.354 was a typo ... I bet they meant T6.354. I didn't even think of that.

One other thing - is there a reason that the transmissions would be geared differently? I just noticed that port side ratio is 2.10:1 and stbd is 1.91:1. That seems odd to me.
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:22 AM   #24
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You sometimes see that disparity when one of the transmissions is reversing an engine's output so the props turn in different directions, minimizing the turning tendency. The forward and reverse transmissions may have slightly different ratios.

But, those specific ratios aren't ringing a bell for me. Where did they come from? Is there a model number on the transmission?
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:33 AM   #25
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Yeah - Velvet Drive/BW:

Port (2.10:1 ratio) = Model: 10-18-008 / Serial: 3153
Stbd (1.91:1 ratio) = Model 10-18-006 / Serial: 2005

Thanks so much gkesden ... I really appreciate all of your help.
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Old 01-10-2021, 01:41 PM   #26
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Where is that information coming from? It looks off to me. See attached for the ratios and direction I have for those numbers. Notice that both are CR, counter rotating.

Since neither of your engines have an X in the serial number, I think neither are counter rotating, so exactly one of the transmiasions normally should be, so the props turn in different directions, minimizing any turning tendency from the rotation.

Normally an -05 would be paired with an -06 or an -07 with an -08.

But, it could be that one was rebuilt differently than the plate. And, /some/ of those can be configured to use in reverse with minor modification.

I note that reverse ratio on the -05 is the same as the forward ratio on the -08.

At any rate, I'd love to know the source of the info, because I suspect a 5 is being read as an 8.
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Old 01-10-2021, 03:22 PM   #27
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Yeah - that is confusing. Looking at the ratio creates even more confusion. If I follow what you're saying then, wouldn't you want a CR model geared at the same ratio (although I guess that assumes that one of the engines had been installed as a counter rotating model). It wouldn't surprise me if there is a typo somewhere ... it was off the mechanics "Maintenance Checklist" which was filled out at last survey (2019) and we've already seen a typo earlier (i.e. "TG.354" vs T6.354).

Is it possible that whoever installed the engines didn't install a CR engine or transmission, and instead just geared the engines differently to offset turning tendency?
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Old 01-10-2021, 03:33 PM   #28
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If the two props were turning in the same direction, you'd know it. Remember, in twins, one does slow, close in maneuvering with engines alone (no rudder).

I suspect it is nothing more than a typo or misread.

If not, I suspect something was rebuilt differently, e.g., one of those transmissions was set up at a shop to be the opposite of the label plate.

When you can get back to the boat, you can read for yourself. You can also look at idle/slow speed. I'm betting you'll see both engines turning the same direction, but one of the shafts turning opposite directions. Whichever shaft is turning opposite of the engines is attached to the counter rotating transmission.

Just my guesses. Ask your engine inspector and/or surveyor.

-Greg
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Old 01-10-2021, 04:02 PM   #29
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Awesome - I can't thank you enough for the help, Greg. Really appreciate you spending so much time with me on this.

- John
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:45 PM   #30
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5000 hours, might want to see if they have ever replaced the damper plate.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:07 PM   #31
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My '82 T6-354 had close to 4,000 hrs. on it. Economical to run, next to no oil consumption and didn't deserve the nickname offered by the local mechanic of "Pissy Perkins" for a reputation of them leaking oil. One investment I saw as critical was to get ahead of the problem of cast iron exhaust manifolds. I ordered a bolt on replacement from Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama. The result, although expensive, pays for itself in the long run and lack of worry about when - not if - the cast iron manifold would develop a engine-side leak before a scheduled inspection. Clean fuel, a raw water flow alarm and fresh (new)raw water pump are pieces I view as essential.
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Old 01-15-2021, 06:57 PM   #32
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Gee, I had no idea these engines are so celebrated. Lady Sue, Mainship I, 1982, has a Perkins (TU70027U6351444) with 4100 hours on her, and as Jay Leonard remembers, I've put 30 years on her myself. And I've logged every trip, humming between 1900-2000 rpm, around 180 degrees temp, and 65-80# oil pressure. Depending on tidal currents she clocks 6.5-10.5 knots. I budget about $10K/yr, all in--slip, winter storage/shrink wrap, insurance, scotch and a few cigars. Sometimes I do spend more for maintenance/repair but nothing to have a nervous breakdown over. Get a good mechanic--I don't know donkey dust--change her fluids and keep her pretty. Jim Ferry
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:05 PM   #33
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Just for actual reference this is the invoice to Marine Max from Yacht Power Products for a total overhaul of the 6.354.4 the previous owner of my current boat did through Marine Max. Marine max would have put another charge on top of this. This was mid 2017.



Yacht Power Products
1510 - 1ST AVENUE NORTH
ST. PETERSBURG, FL 33705-1510
(727) 822-2628 * (727) 821-9859
FAX (727) 822-0785
SOLD BY:
MARINEMAX - GREAT AMERICAN
6810 GULFPORT BLVD.
ST.PETERSBURG FL 33707

DATE: 5/19/2017
Page 1 of 1
5/19/2017
Ordered Shipped Part Number Description List Price Total
1.0 1.0XXX REBUILD PERKINS 6354M 8,000.00 8,000.00 8,000.00
1.0 1.0XXX BOWMAN EXHAUST MANIFORD N/C 1,750.00 1,750.00 1,750.00
1.0 1.0XXX MIXING ELBOW 749.60 749.60 749.60
1.0 1.0XXX AUX DRIVE SEAL 28.00 28.00 28.00
1.0 1.0YPP999 FREIGHT 165.00 165.00 165.00
1.0 1.0XXX OIL/ TRANS COOLER 949.00 949.00 949.00
1.0 1.0XXX REBUILD INJECTORS 704.60 704.60 704.60
PERKINS 6354M REBUILD
SEE LIST for complete parts breakdown

TOTAL
SUB TOTAL
SALES TAX
$12,346.20
$12,346.20
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffany View Post
My '82 T6-354 had close to 4,000 hrs. on it. Economical to run, next to no oil consumption and didn't deserve the nickname offered by the local mechanic of "Pissy Perkins" for a reputation of them leaking oil. One investment I saw as critical was to get ahead of the problem of cast iron exhaust manifolds. I ordered a bolt on replacement from Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama. The result, although expensive, pays for itself in the long run and lack of worry about when - not if - the cast iron manifold would develop a engine-side leak before a scheduled inspection. Clean fuel, a raw water flow alarm and fresh (new)raw water pump are pieces I view as essential.
Great recommendations Tiffany. Thanks again to all ... there was so much great info here. Pleased to say we now have her under contract. Surveys and trial next week. Fingers crossed!
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