PERKINS 6.354M mainfold/heatexchanger

[Dwk]

A friend is considering a 34 Californian with twin Perkins 6.354M. He doesn't want to waste anyone's time if these are the Perkins that have the manifold/heat-exchanger that are difficult to find. He doesn't have the serial #s to research(yet). I told him about a thread that discussed this at length but can't locate it. Are these the Perkins discussed? What was the outcome?

 

[rochepoint]

Do you have a link to the boat for sale in question so we could look at photos of the engine, we have a Perkins 6.3544M and it does have the manicooler. These are still available from Bowman in England, just not inexpensive.

 

[Dwk]

No, I don't link. The owner stated the engine was a 6.354M none turbo.

 

[STB]

The Perkins 6.354M is a great engine. And, the parts are still available. I have two in my boat.

The manifold it is in current production from Mesa Marine in Alabama (Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama, Inc.). It seems to cost $2500-$2800. But, unlike the original it is stainless vs carbon steel, so it should last a lifetime.

If one wants to replace the heat exchanger and manifold with a combination manicooler, they are in current production from EJ Bowman in the UK (https://www.ej-bowman.com/)

Either option is available directly from the suppliers and also through resellers, such as TAD Diesel in VA (TAD for perkins engines, perkins diesel, perkins marine, perkins parts, perkins generators, perkins service) and S&W Diesel in CA (https://www.swdieselinc.com/), among others.


The cost for the manicooler is about $2,000 but there is an install kit that is needed to convert from a separate manifold and heat exchanger to the single manicooler. It consists of hoses and other small parts. TAD Diesel apparently wants another $2,000 for the install kit. I think there was generally a sense on the forum that it'd be worth getting a quote from another supplier, e.g. S&W Diesel, and/or ordering straight from EJ Bowman, or putting together the kit from individual parts one's self, before spending that much on the install kit from TAD Diesel.

In any case, the parts for the engines are still available, including rebuild kits, coolers, manifolds, etc. The only part I know of that i hard to find is the contra-rotating raw water pump. It is rebuildable using the same kit as the regular raw water pump. But, if the housing breaks, one would need to repair it, cast a new one, or improvise with a 3rd party pump. I haven't seen those for sale for a while.

 

[scope1969]

I just bought a 1980 Californian 34 LRC with twin Perkins ST.63544M engines. I had them serviced and my local diesel mechanic recommends that I replace the heat exchanger/manifolds soon to ensure reliability. In the meantime, I'm just doing light duty cruising @1000rpm. I can't seem to locate these parts other than to have Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (see above thread) fabricate custom ones. They seem awesome from the drawings, etc but I don't have the $20,000 to spend (they want $15K for the first one and $5K for the second). Any other ideas out there or does anyone else need the same manicoolers? Perhaps we could get a group of us together and order in volume to bring the cost down.

 

[STB]

I just bought a 1980 Californian 34 LRC with twin Perkins ST.63544M engines. I had them serviced and my local diesel mechanic recommends that I replace the heat exchanger/manifolds soon to ensure reliability. In the meantime, I'm just doing light duty cruising @1000rpm. I can't seem to locate these parts other than to have Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (see above thread) fabricate custom ones. They seem awesome from the drawings, etc but I don't have the $20,000 to spend (they want $15K for the first one and $5K for the second). Any other ideas out there or does anyone else need the same manicoolers? Perhaps we could get a group of us together and order in volume to bring the cost down.

You've got the "newer" "Dot 4" engine, e.g. 6.3544 vs 6.354. Those heat exchangers and manifolds shouldn't need to be custom made. Check in with TAD (Trans Atlantic Diesels | Perkins Diesel Engines | Perkins Engine Parts | Cummins Diesel Engines), S&W Diesel (Scott or Angel, 310-835-3155) or MrCool (Russ or Brandon, 248-960-7850, https://www.mrcool.us/)

Especially for S&W, but really for any of the three, you are //way// better off calling than using the Web site.

 

[scope1969]

Thanks gkesden but I have already reached out to all 3 of these vendors (TAD, SW, MrCool) and they don't have what I need. I should have mentioned that in my post.

Cheers

 

[STB]

Interesting. Do you happen to have a part number? Or, can you give me your engine serial number?

 

[scope1969]

S# is TU70025U569312F

 

[scope1969]

From what I gather, I need to find used parts or go with custom fabrication but I am a newbie so just learning to figure this stuff out.

 

[STB]

Okay. So that engine has a "multicooler" versus a "manicooler" or separate coolers and manifold.

I don't immediately see that part available from the usual suspects when I go look. And, I don't happen to know who originally made it. Let me try to give a call to S&W on Monday or Tuesday and chat with them about it. I need to check in with them about it, anyway.

Depending upon the situation with yours, you may be able to send it to MESA in Alabama for rework. They can do things like replace the copper and braze metal into pitting and corrosion. If you haven't chatted with them about this option, you may want to give them a call and tell them a little bit about the condition of yours and maybe send over some pictures. They may be able to give you an idea as to whether or not they can rework it or it needs replaced.

 

[kapnd]

I just bought a 1980 Californian 34 LRC with twin Perkins ST.63544M engines. I had them serviced and my local diesel mechanic recommends that I replace the heat exchanger/manifolds soon to ensure reliability. In the meantime, I'm just doing light duty cruising @1000rpm. I can't seem to locate these parts other than to have Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (see above thread) fabricate custom ones. They seem awesome from the drawings, etc but I don't have the $20,000 to spend (they want $15K for the first one and $5K for the second). Any other ideas out there or does anyone else need the same manicoolers? Perhaps we could get a group of us together and order in volume to bring the cost down.

You could get a couple of good used Cummins B’s for that kind of money, don’t pile bad on bad!

 

[STB]

Unless I'm mistaken, the turbo version of the engine has a multicooler vs a manicooler. If it is a manicooler, it may be made by, and available from ej bowman (https://ej-bowman.com/)

 

[Xsbank]

Why can't you put a tractor manifold on it and wrap it?

 

[STB]

Why can't you put a tractor manifold on it and wrap it?

A tractor manifold is set up for a dry stack vs raw water cooling.

 

[Xsbank]

The raw water cooling part is at the end of the manifold and the water is squirted in at that point.

Has nobody tried this? Tractor parts are much cheaper than marine. A custom wrap is way cheaper than the manicooler.

 

[scope1969]

Thank you!

Thanks for all of your input. It's very much appreciated! I love TF!

 

[boomerang]

The raw water cooling part is at the end of the manifold and the water is squirted in at that point.

Has nobody tried this? Tractor parts are much cheaper than marine. A custom wrap is way cheaper than the manicooler.

I suppose a tractor manifold could be made to work with some minor plumbing modifications to inject raw water into the exhaust but in our case, it would be damn near impossible to wrap the entire exhaust manifold at each cylinder exhaust port and if it wasn't wrapped completely, I would have to wait until the engine cooled to get down beside the engine for an emergency repair such as the fuel lift pump (it's extremely likely that would need to be done asap, i.e. with the engine hot), starter solenoid, alternator replacement and such. Basically anything on the right side of the engine in under the manifold. Needless to say, the engine access isn't the greatest on our 34' boat. On boats with a larger engine room, I could see being able to do a repair with a hot manifold. Ours, not so much. I'm not even taking into account how much more a non water-cooled manifold would raise the engine compartment temperature...our alternator runs hot enough already!

 

[Xsbank]

Sorry Boomerang, but you don't get it...

Wrap the exhaust with one of these blankets and your engine will be EASIER to work on, assuming one day you will have to shut off the engine and immediately dive on top of the engine, this will be cooler for you and a bit padded as well.

Also, my Cummins is keel cooled and the exhaust manifold is cooled with coolant. not raw water. If you had to buy a full-price manicooler, because you may want to leap on it some day, why not dump the salt water and cool it with coolant? At least it will last longer as long as you change your coolant as per the manual.

 

[boomerang]

Sorry Boomerang, but you don't get it...

Wrap the exhaust with one of these blankets and your engine will be EASIER to work on, assuming one day you will have to shut off the engine and immediately dive on top of the engine, this will be cooler for you and a bit padded as well.

Also, my Cummins is keel cooled and the exhaust manifold is cooled with coolant. not raw water. If you had to buy a full-price manicooler, because you may want to leap on it some day, why not dump the salt water and cool it with coolant? At least it will last longer as long as you change your coolant as per the manual.

I think I get it. The pic you show is of a wrapped exhaust riser, not the exhaust manifold, but I don't care. Wrap your tractor manifold in whatever you want. I'm just saying that the scenario you proposed wouldn't work too great in MY boat. Got it?

 

[DNT99611]

Sorry Boomerang, but you don't get it...

Wrap the exhaust with one of these blankets and your engine will be EASIER to work on, assuming one day you will have to shut off the engine and immediately dive on top of the engine, this will be cooler for you and a bit padded as well.

Also, my Cummins is keel cooled and the exhaust manifold is cooled with coolant. not raw water. If you had to buy a full-price manicooler, because you may want to leap on it some day, why not dump the salt water and cool it with coolant? At least it will last longer as long as you change your coolant as per the manual.

Would you mind explaining your exhaust system a little more? Looks to be wet exhaust so where are you getting the cooling water from? Do you have a separate pump that supplies cooling water? Just trying to learn a little more. All I have ever had is dry exhaust systems.
Thanks, David

 

[Xsbank]

That was not my exhaust but a photo of a Yanmar installation; mine is a Cummins and completely dry stacked. Never want a salt water cooled boat again.

I was just trying to show a little interest and suggest a solution to the Perkins crowd but I am obviously a slow learner.

 

[nelson367]

I just bought a 1980 Californian 34 LRC with twin Perkins ST.63544M engines. I had them serviced and my local diesel mechanic recommends that I replace the heat exchanger/manifolds soon to ensure reliability. In the meantime, I'm just doing light duty cruising @1000rpm. I can't seem to locate these parts other than to have Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (see above thread) fabricate custom ones. They seem awesome from the drawings, etc but I don't have the $20,000 to spend (they want $15K for the first one and $5K for the second). Any other ideas out there or does anyone else need the same manicoolers? Perhaps we could get a group of us together and order in volume to bring the cost down.

We spoke to MESA also; we would be willing to be part of a group to have the first Manicooler fabricated. Is any one else willing to commit?

 

[High Wire]

The terms multi-cooler and mani-cooler as sometimes get used interchangeably. You need to be exactly sure what you've got. The multi-cooler is also used on non-turbo engines. Those engines have a "turbo adapter" in place of the turbo.

From the Perkins manual:

 

[nelson367]

Perkins

Thanks for the heads up. Our is the Turbo version, so its the Multi Cooler

 

[Knot Salted]

Two in KS.

Knock Wood, but all is well with Twin turbo Manicoolers since 1981-82.[emoji4]

 

[CaptTom]

The terms multi-cooler and mani-cooler as sometimes get used interchangeably.

Yes, I always wondered why both terms were tossed around, and which one I actually had. (Turns out it's the multi-cooler.)

Thanks for the education!

 

[Knot Salted]

Yes, I always wondered why both terms were tossed around, and which one I actually had. (Turns out it's the multi-cooler.)

Thanks for the education!

Me too.

Thanks!

 

[nelson367]

I just bought a 1980 Californian 34 LRC with twin Perkins ST.63544M engines. I had them serviced and my local diesel mechanic recommends that I replace the heat exchanger/manifolds soon to ensure reliability. In the meantime, I'm just doing light duty cruising @1000rpm. I can't seem to locate these parts other than to have Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (see above thread) fabricate custom ones. They seem awesome from the drawings, etc but I don't have the $20,000 to spend (they want $15K for the first one and $5K for the second). Any other ideas out there or does anyone else need the same manicoolers? Perhaps we could get a group of us together and order in volume to bring the cost down.

I am considering pulling the trigger on the Multi cooler for the ST.63544 M with MESA; would you consider going in on the first one as a group

 

[Steve63]

Depending on condition converting the Manicooler to engine coolant is not that hard just a change of plumbing . Just done mine ! Requires reaming out the tap in the water pump and drilling the inspection plate at the rear of the engine...