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Old 11-27-2019, 02:41 PM   #81
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As I posted...it's less about the actual pump as is cost, cost of shipping, ease of getting the pump while cruising unless you carry a spare, haw easy it is to work on the pump, constant impeller vigilance (my Westerbeke will cook an impeller and seals withing seconds of water flow stoppage either from air, blockage or factory impeller issue). Because my westebeke uses a generic Johnson pump...any genset with a similar design may have similar issues.


Then there is just "ease of maintenance access" of where the genset is installed and what kind of enclosure it has.


So the mod isn't always an improvement for every genset (all brands could have these issues)...in fact thinking of it as an improvement isn't even the debate...it's just a mod for various reasons. It's not uncommon to mod parts or remote them in many marine engine applications....both genset and main propulsion.


I am not suggesting one takes their OEM water pump off and install an electric setup first thing...but down the road it can be an option.
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Old 11-27-2019, 09:19 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
This made no sense to me whatsoever. Given the number of accolades this was getting, I pinged a friend who consults to one of the major marine propulsion manufacturers (including generators). Granted, he's talking propulsion engines, but I don't see a huge difference on all counts except the first comment on pump continuing to run after engine shut down (even then, you'd have to ensure the pump isn't energized by the inverter). BTW - replacement OEM pump for my Northern Lights 6kw is $220.

I'm sorry, to me, this just looks like a solution in search of a problem.

Here's his response:
I have substituted an electric pump for an impeller pump on a propulsion engine twice in an emergency but it is a very easy way to fill an engine with seawater if the flow doesn’t stop immediately when the engine shuts down. It is also very difficult to get anything resembling a good flow match for the cooling system, since the flow isn’t linear with engine RPM, like an impeller pump. At higher loads, when exhaust back pressure is higher, the flow of a centrifugal pump drops dramatically, just when you need the most cooling. So, yes, it sort of works in a limited way but also comes with some seriously engine life threatening caveats.

I agree 100% I saw no advantage to the electric RW pump that my Entec generator came with. When I replaced the electric pump with a mechanical impeller pump, I noticed more water flow out of the exhaust and it seemed more quiet.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:21 AM   #83
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On the other hand, the exhaust hoses and elbows are commonly right on top of the generator. This area is the trouble spot and remains so even with an external pump. NLs are prone to elbow failures. Which is why the SS version is much preferred. On our Westerbeke the elbow is Al. Surprisingly the Al holds up well. I replace every few years anyway and the old ones come out in great shape.
Agreed on elbow failures, cast iron units, from NL and others, have numbered days, I've lost count of how many I've encountered rusted, cracked and leaking. In one case I opened a gesnet enclosure and the interior, every square inch, was as black as coal with a salt crust, the elbow had been leaking for some time and the owner never opened the enclosure, I was shocked it was still running. Even the SS ones leak occasionally, they should be inspected often. When Westerbeke came out with their aluminum-magnesium elbow many years ago, with a bronze plug no less, I was a firm skeptic, and yet I have yet to encounter one that's failed, it's light years ahead of their cast iron elbows, one of which I have as a door stop, another as a paper weight, another... you get the picture.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:45 AM   #84
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Here is one of many discussions of what people think are "improvements" by using an electric pump.

IThe video may seem pretty slow up front, so skip along if you already understand the basics of raw water systems.

I skipped along so I will just lump it in my overall view of you tube posts (unverified)...but his new raw water system on the Onan could have merit.
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:46 AM   #85
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Of you're that concerned with raw water pump, why not just go with a keel cooler and dry stack? Granted noisy, but some muffler will work. Mostly.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:52 PM   #86
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Another option but more complicated.....in my opinion.

Again, just options mostly, not necessarily "improvements"...but possibly for some.
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:51 PM   #87
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Yea, the nextgen/kubota is a good machine for smaller boats. It is a bit rough and noisy, but it beats sweating like crazy all night. The FP is nice because it is so light you can tip it into the dumpster single-handed.

The NL 5-6kW is a good unit, but it is not that good. I have fixed a lot of them and seen the weak spots. No valve seats?? WTF. Salt water creaping in from HX boots?? Same thing. Cheesy wiring in control box?? Really? But if you can fit the 3cyl in your boat it is better than most. And the NL 5kW is what is in my boat, over 6000hrs so far. But it has not been flawless. Still pretty good, though.

To the OP, the 1cyl nextgen is wide and flat, so mounting dimensions are going to be different. If you can fit it, good. Use a larger than recommended water lift muffler to cut down the exhaust noise. The NL 5/6kW is nice but probably bigger than you need, and that is not good if oversized.
Great info, Ski. Thanks for sharing that expertise!

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Ski's comments are good enough for me. If nothing else for casting a bit of doubt on the gold standard myth. But, owner care and maintenance seems to be the key with many 1800 RPM units I'm familiar with.
Very good point, Tom and probably true for all RPM ranges.

I agree that an installed genset is much preferred to an air-cooled Honda generator like mine if feasible. I run mine strapped down on the FB bench seat which insulates the vibes and noise and allows for good ventilation. But I gotta run up the ladder to start, stop and refill with gas. Maybe someday I'll upgrade to a 3000 with remote control!

I rarely drive from my FB anymore. I treat like my FB as my 'attic with a million dollar view' so it's not really in the way of anything up there.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:16 AM   #88
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" Granted noisy, but some muffler will work. Mostly."

To install a quiet muffler on a dry stack, Google "Hospital Critical" muffler.

Heavy and expensive (new) but really do work.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:57 PM   #89
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Panda Fischer Generator

Found this discussion while researching a new generator to replace my aging Onan. Am leaning towards the NL. I did the electric raw water modification many years ago on my generator. It was a great move. Inexpensive, no impellers, reliable. I bought a spare pump for $120. I also use a Honda for float charge. Probably have close to 2500 (my installed meter quit at 2000) hours on it with 0 troubles.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:23 PM   #90
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Update; My generator was saved, its running perfect again. I am into it for $2k parts and labor. The head gasket was leaking water into the engine, but it seems I caught it right away. The internal components look mint. Replaced the head with a refurbished one (off a fresh water cooled engine), exhaust manifold had a crack, fixed that, water pump had leaking seals, and replaced the water collection block on the stator. My oil cooler turned out to be in good shape. I'm happy with the job. Something I learned, the engine in my gen was also used on Westerbeek gens for many years.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:34 AM   #91
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Thats good news,,,from he sounds of it you should be set for a wile. White noise for the little guy.
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