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03-10-2020, 03:44 PM
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#1
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
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A/P Pump - Octopus? Other?
I'm installing Simrad nav system. Thinking of going with their A/P system. Question: are A/P pumps proprietary to the system (e.g. Simrad, Furuno, Raymarine, etc.), or can a generic A/P pump be used such as the Octopus (shown HERE from Hodges Marine). The Simrad version is over $1000 vs $625 for the Octopus (or other - both for up to a 30-inch cylinder).
Thoughts? Are these interchangeable? I would think so with correct fittings - it's just a reversible pump, right?
Thanks in advance - Peter
BTW - my boat has a Wagner T-Ram drive system. No idea what the cubic inch capacity is, but assume it's well under 30 cubic inch.
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Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
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03-10-2020, 03:53 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
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As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.
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03-10-2020, 03:59 PM
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#3
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Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.
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David
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03-10-2020, 04:02 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.
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"Brand match." Good term. Exactly right.
Any suggestions on a solid pump? I'd never heard of Octopus for example.
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03-10-2020, 07:04 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Long island
Vessel Model: Eastern
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 632
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Octopus type 2 is adjustable flow. It helps to tune in the AP
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03-10-2020, 07:36 PM
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#6
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles
"Brand match." Good term. Exactly right.
Any suggestions on a solid pump? I'd never heard of Octopus for example.
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My KK42 has an Octopus that has seen 6,000+ hours in not so easy conditions. One of these days I will spring for a spare, but I wouldn't buy anything else.
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03-10-2020, 09:31 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: US PNW
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 943
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You have Simrad, and I can't speak to that, but just for the sake of info, some Mfgrs do seem to require their own proprietary pump. My choice to go Raymarine over Garmin wasn't based on only one thing; but I did take into account that Garmin required their own Garmin Smart AP pump; whereas with Raymarine you could use any "Type X" pump that suited the size spec of the AP (Type 1 in my case).
I wanted to use the Seastar AP1219 for hose routing reasons (tight spaces), so that was one of my many decision points. Others may already have a pump from a previous system that they want to use.
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03-10-2020, 10:44 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: League City, TX
Vessel Name: Pelago
Vessel Model: Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
You have Simrad, and I can't speak to that, but just for the sake of info, some Mfgrs do seem to require their own proprietary pump. My choice to go Raymarine over Garmin wasn't based on only one thing; but I did take into account that Garmin required their own Garmin Smart AP pump; whereas with Raymarine you could use any "Type X" pump that suited the size spec of the AP (Type 1 in my case).
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Actually the Garmin Reactor A/P is available in a version for use with other pumps. Known as the Reactor™ 40 Mechanical/Retrofit/Solenoid Corepack, it works with just about any type drive unit, but does require a rudder feedback unit. This function is built into the Garmin SmartPump.
My current boat has this system coupled to a Simrad RPU160 pump and ShadowDrive. It is responsive and precise in operation and I'm quite satisfied. The only thing I miss is a Follow Up Steering Lever which I had on previous boats with Simrad A/P's.
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Larry
M/V Pelago
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03-11-2020, 12:10 AM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,263
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A autopilot pump is just a 12V reversable pump.
the only criteria is that it should be big enough to go to full rudder in a reasonable amount of time. Not too fast, not too slow. This is generally the cubic inch rating of the pump.
Brand means nothing.
I went with a Furuno pump for my Simrad autpoilot simple because the octopus was sold out at the time, and the furuno is a Seastar unit, which for some reason i could get cheaper than the seastar branded one.
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03-11-2020, 12:50 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: US PNW
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryM
Actually the Garmin Reactor A/P is available in a version for use with other pumps. Known as the Reactor™ 40 Mechanical/Retrofit/Solenoid Corepack, it works with just about any type drive unit, but does require a rudder feedback unit. This function is built into the Garmin SmartPump.
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Thanks for that correction. Either I completely missed that option or it doesn't exist for smaller setups like mine? Anyway, I appreciate the better info.
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03-11-2020, 06:56 AM
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#11
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Matching the pump to the system would include the LRA , the amps the pump draws each time it starts pumping.
The power pack is built to provide only so many amps each operation.
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03-11-2020, 08:41 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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I think there are 2 and 3 wire systems and pumps. Like DC windlass motors.
Make sure the pump and computer match along with other requirements.
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03-11-2020, 10:36 AM
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#13
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Guru
City: Bainbridge Island/Petersburg Alaska
Vessel Name: Oz
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40' RPH 1979
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 514
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My Octopus is decades old and over 5k hours and has never missed a beat. It's teamed up with a ComNav 1001 system.
Tator
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03-11-2020, 11:31 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
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Most autopilot pumps are two wire reversing.
The pumping capacity is sized for the steering cylinders displacement. Which affects the time it takes the rudder to move from stop to stop.
A variable displacement pump would allow exact capacity and rudder performance.
I have an Accu-Steer variable displacement pump on my Robertson/Simrad AP35. It required larger diameter steering lines than OEM.
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04-06-2020, 05:54 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
City: Hong Kong
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 247
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I've got Simrad autopilot computers which can put out approximately 25Amps directly to the Kobelt 7201 steering pumps. These pumps come either with direct connection to the A/P's or with a relay on the pump..
Very simple and high quality, good service too.
No need for brand specific pumps...
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04-06-2020, 11:30 AM
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#16
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Veteran Member
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Name: Fair Play
Vessel Model: 1960 Taley 40' cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 84
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Here's a good comparison chart
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04-06-2020, 12:58 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alesnloggers
Here's a good comparison chart
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Begs another question: Difference between Gear Pump and Piston Pump? Octopus shows both, with Piston rated for larger applications. Is one better than the other, or just different?
Peter
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Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
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04-07-2020, 02:07 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Shady Grove
Vessel Model: TMC Custom 41 Trawler & S-2 10.3 Sail
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 133
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Weebles you need to measure and calculate the capacity of your cylinder. I found something published by SeaStar that aided me doing this. By knowing the capacity and consulting Navico rep at the recent Miami Boat Show allowed me to spec a RPU 80 for my 41' boat which is $200 less than the RPU 160 which you show a link to , BUT your savings don't end there. The RPU 160 requires the NAC 3 autopilot computer where the RPU 80 can use NAC 2 computer which is another $550 savings.
I could not find a published current draw for the Octopus.
The NAC 2 can only handle a 10amp peak.
I had a SeaStar pump advertised from Hodges that was only around $400 but went ahead and bought all Simrad as "Package" deal at the Boat Show along with Chartplotter & Radar
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04-07-2020, 02:16 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTime
Weebles you need to measure and calculate the capacity of your cylinder. I found something published by SeaStar that aided me doing this. By knowing the capacity and consulting Navico rep at the recent Miami Boat Show allowed me to spec a RPU 80 for my 41' boat which is $200 less than the RPU 160 which you show a link tor
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Thanks BigTime - good suggestion, though because I have a different setup than a typical hydraulic ram, not sure I can simply measure. My boat has what is called T-Ram hydraulic steering - see attached. I'll drop them a note and see what was typical for a boat my size.
Thanks - Peter
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Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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04-07-2020, 04:33 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles
Thanks BigTime - good suggestion, though because I have a different setup than a typical hydraulic ram, not sure I can simply measure. My boat has what is called T-Ram hydraulic steering - see attached. I'll drop them a note and see what was typical for a boat my size.
Thanks - Peter
Attachment 101180
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Most manufacturers of autopilot cylinders advertise the volume of each ram in their specifications.
I have measured rams with no identification by filling them with hydraulic oil and measuring the amount it takes to fill it.
Yours is not the typical cylinder so you can not get an approximate volume by measuring diameter and stroke.
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