A/P Pump - Octopus? Other?

[mvweebles]

I'm installing Simrad nav system. Thinking of going with their A/P system. Question: are A/P pumps proprietary to the system (e.g. Simrad, Furuno, Raymarine, etc.), or can a generic A/P pump be used such as the Octopus (shown HERE from Hodges Marine). The Simrad version is over $1000 vs $625 for the Octopus (or other - both for up to a 30-inch cylinder).

Thoughts? Are these interchangeable? I would think so with correct fittings - it's just a reversible pump, right?

Thanks in advance - Peter

BTW - my boat has a Wagner T-Ram drive system. No idea what the cubic inch capacity is, but assume it's well under 30 cubic inch.

 

[rslifkin]

As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.

 

[DavidM]

As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.

David

 

[mvweebles]

As long as the pump is sized correctly and its power draw and wiring is compatible with the chosen autopilot controller, there's no need to brand match. You can use pretty much any pump that meets the need.

"Brand match." Good term. Exactly right.

Any suggestions on a solid pump? I'd never heard of Octopus for example.

 

[Arc]

Octopus type 2 is adjustable flow. It helps to tune in the AP

 

[Wxx3]

"Brand match." Good term. Exactly right.

Any suggestions on a solid pump? I'd never heard of Octopus for example.

My KK42 has an Octopus that has seen 6,000+ hours in not so easy conditions. One of these days I will spring for a spare, but I wouldn't buy anything else.

 

[Frosty]

You have Simrad, and I can't speak to that, but just for the sake of info, some Mfgrs do seem to require their own proprietary pump. My choice to go Raymarine over Garmin wasn't based on only one thing; but I did take into account that Garmin required their own Garmin Smart AP pump; whereas with Raymarine you could use any "Type X" pump that suited the size spec of the AP (Type 1 in my case).

I wanted to use the Seastar AP1219 for hose routing reasons (tight spaces), so that was one of my many decision points. Others may already have a pump from a previous system that they want to use.

 

[LarryM]

You have Simrad, and I can't speak to that, but just for the sake of info, some Mfgrs do seem to require their own proprietary pump. My choice to go Raymarine over Garmin wasn't based on only one thing; but I did take into account that Garmin required their own Garmin Smart AP pump; whereas with Raymarine you could use any "Type X" pump that suited the size spec of the AP (Type 1 in my case).

Actually the Garmin Reactor A/P is available in a version for use with other pumps. Known as the Reactor™ 40 Mechanical/Retrofit/Solenoid Corepack, it works with just about any type drive unit, but does require a rudder feedback unit. This function is built into the Garmin SmartPump.

My current boat has this system coupled to a Simrad RPU160 pump and ShadowDrive. It is responsive and precise in operation and I'm quite satisfied. The only thing I miss is a Follow Up Steering Lever which I had on previous boats with Simrad A/P's.

 

[ksanders]

A autopilot pump is just a 12V reversable pump.

the only criteria is that it should be big enough to go to full rudder in a reasonable amount of time. Not too fast, not too slow. This is generally the cubic inch rating of the pump.

Brand means nothing.

I went with a Furuno pump for my Simrad autpoilot simple because the octopus was sold out at the time, and the furuno is a Seastar unit, which for some reason i could get cheaper than the seastar branded one.

 

[Frosty]

Actually the Garmin Reactor A/P is available in a version for use with other pumps. Known as the Reactor™ 40 Mechanical/Retrofit/Solenoid Corepack, it works with just about any type drive unit, but does require a rudder feedback unit. This function is built into the Garmin SmartPump.

Thanks for that correction. Either I completely missed that option or it doesn't exist for smaller setups like mine? Anyway, I appreciate the better info.

 

[FF]

Matching the pump to the system would include the LRA , the amps the pump draws each time it starts pumping.


The power pack is built to provide only so many amps each operation.

 

[psneeld]

I think there are 2 and 3 wire systems and pumps. Like DC windlass motors.


Make sure the pump and computer match along with other requirements.

 

[Tator]

My Octopus is decades old and over 5k hours and has never missed a beat. It's teamed up with a ComNav 1001 system.

Tator

 

[syjos]

Most autopilot pumps are two wire reversing.

The pumping capacity is sized for the steering cylinders displacement. Which affects the time it takes the rudder to move from stop to stop.

A variable displacement pump would allow exact capacity and rudder performance.

I have an Accu-Steer variable displacement pump on my Robertson/Simrad AP35. It required larger diameter steering lines than OEM.

 

[Searios]

I've got Simrad autopilot computers which can put out approximately 25Amps directly to the Kobelt 7201 steering pumps. These pumps come either with direct connection to the A/P's or with a relay on the pump..

Very simple and high quality, good service too.

No need for brand specific pumps...

 

[alesnloggers]

Here's a good comparison chart

 

[mvweebles]

Here's a good comparison chart

Begs another question: Difference between Gear Pump and Piston Pump? Octopus shows both, with Piston rated for larger applications. Is one better than the other, or just different?

Peter

 

[BigTime]

Weebles you need to measure and calculate the capacity of your cylinder. I found something published by SeaStar that aided me doing this. By knowing the capacity and consulting Navico rep at the recent Miami Boat Show allowed me to spec a RPU 80 for my 41' boat which is $200 less than the RPU 160 which you show a link to , BUT your savings don't end there. The RPU 160 requires the NAC 3 autopilot computer where the RPU 80 can use NAC 2 computer which is another $550 savings.
I could not find a published current draw for the Octopus.
The NAC 2 can only handle a 10amp peak.
I had a SeaStar pump advertised from Hodges that was only around $400 but went ahead and bought all Simrad as "Package" deal at the Boat Show along with Chartplotter & Radar

 

[mvweebles]

Weebles you need to measure and calculate the capacity of your cylinder. I found something published by SeaStar that aided me doing this. By knowing the capacity and consulting Navico rep at the recent Miami Boat Show allowed me to spec a RPU 80 for my 41' boat which is $200 less than the RPU 160 which you show a link tor

Thanks BigTime - good suggestion, though because I have a different setup than a typical hydraulic ram, not sure I can simply measure. My boat has what is called T-Ram hydraulic steering - see attached. I'll drop them a note and see what was typical for a boat my size.

Thanks - Peter

 

[syjos]

Thanks BigTime - good suggestion, though because I have a different setup than a typical hydraulic ram, not sure I can simply measure. My boat has what is called T-Ram hydraulic steering - see attached. I'll drop them a note and see what was typical for a boat my size.

Thanks - Peter

View attachment 101180

Most manufacturers of autopilot cylinders advertise the volume of each ram in their specifications.

I have measured rams with no identification by filling them with hydraulic oil and measuring the amount it takes to fill it.

Yours is not the typical cylinder so you can not get an approximate volume by measuring diameter and stroke.

 

[mvweebles]

I've dropped Wagner a note to ask what the capacity is. There is no capacity listed in the literature I've found. As a guess if needed, I'll measure the two cylinder chambers and figure out if they are additive.

Most manufacturers of autopilot cylinders advertise the volume of each ram in their specifications.

I have measured rams with no identification by filling them with hydraulic oil and measuring the amount it takes to fill it.

Yours is not the typical cylinder so you can not get an approximate volume by measuring diameter and stroke.

 

[Island Cessna]

I've dropped Wagner a note to ask what the capacity is. There is no capacity listed in the literature I've found. As a guess if needed, I'll measure the two cylinder chambers and figure out if they are additive.

The W36’s have Wagner T-2 tillers, the displacement is 9.9 cubic inches. Mine has a Raymarine Type 1 autopilot pump, with a Cetrek autopilot. Works well. Bill