Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-12-2020, 10:50 PM   #41
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
ABYC

31.5.5 INSTALLATION AND LOCATION
31.5.5.1.The battery charger, inverter or inverter/charger shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s
instructions.
31.5.5.2 Battery chargers, inverters and inverter/chargers shall be installed:
31.5.5.3 in a ventilated, dry, accessible location,
31.5.5.3.1 where the ambient temperature will not exceed 122°F (50°C) and
31.5.5.3.2 away from heat sources, such as dry engine exhaust manifolds and other heat producing devices.
31.5.5.4 Battery chargers, inverters and inverter/chargers shall:
31.5.5.4.1 have controls which are readily accessible,
31.5.5.4.2 be located so that hinged covers and access plates can be opened,
31.5.5.4.3 be securely fastened to bulkheads or other vessel structural parts and
31.5.5.4.4 be mounted at least two feet (0.609 m) above normal accumulation of bilge water, or protected so it is not
subject to bilge splash.
__________________
Advertisement

boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2020, 10:54 PM   #42
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
If it helps, I was eventually able to figure out that we could install our inverter/charger above the batteries, not in the engine room

-Chris
ABYC
10.7.6 Batteries shall not be installed, without an intervening barrier, directly below electrical equipment susceptible to attack from corrosive gasses.
__________________

boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2020, 11:47 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
markbarendt's Avatar
 
City: Portland
Vessel Name: 42
Vessel Model: Ocean Marine
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 193
Thanks for that info boatpoker.
markbarendt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 07:31 AM   #44
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
ABYC
10.7.6 Batteries shall not be installed, without an intervening barrier, directly below electrical equipment susceptible to attack from corrosive gasses.

Good point. Leads me to clarify that our installation does have an intervening barrier, and the batteries are offset a bit, not directly above the batteries as I suggested earlier.

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 11:01 AM   #45
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,285
Do I see fuses between the start battery positive terminal and the starter? No, no.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 12:10 PM   #46
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
Do I see fuses between the start battery positive terminal and the starter? No, no.
Yes, yes !

This is one of the very few things I disagree with ABYC.
ABYC exempts starter batteries from fuse protection but if your starter locks up, where do you think that 600amps is going without a fuse ?

Mainesail has an excellent write up on the issue
Battery Bank Fusing
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 12:19 PM   #47
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,285
I removed the fuses I had placed in the starter cable when they blew during a need-to-start-now situation, Never again! Fastest change of a battery cable ever. Never an issue thereafter. Did I say never again? Well, never again.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 12:53 PM   #48
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
I removed the fuses I had placed in the starter cable when they blew during a need-to-start-now situation, Never again! Fastest change of a battery cable ever. Never an issue thereafter. Did I say never again? Well, never again.
So what would have happened if the fuse didn't blow ... melted cables, fire, blown up battery ?
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:01 PM   #49
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,674
Battery switch? What they were designed for?

Don't get me wrong....I have the fuse to satisfy the girly men ( politically incorrect).....but this is a clear suggestion that boat owners are dumber than rocks. While mostly true, I prefer that I and some others are not included.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:06 PM   #50
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
So what would have happened if the fuse didn't blow ... melted cables, fire, blown up battery ?
I'll tell you what happened, the engine started and continued to start for another 23 years, every time I pressed the button. That good enough? And I have not seen fuses in any starting cable in any of the many boats I climbed around since.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:07 PM   #51
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
I'll tell you what happened, the engine started and continued to start for another 23 years, every time I pressed the button. That good enough? And I have not seen fuses in any starting cable in any of the many boats I climbed around since.
So what caused fuse to blow ?
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:09 PM   #52
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Battery switch? What they were designed for?

Don't get me wrong....I have the fuse but this is a clear suggestion that boat owners are dumber than rocks. While mostly true, I prefer that I and some others are not included.
I guess that woiuld work if you were standing right next to the switch and knew that the cables were about to melt.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:41 PM   #53
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
So what caused fuse to blow ?
Never did know. Maybe fuse too small. So long ago, I don't recall. Just made a believer out of me that start cables be short and uninterrupted, just like ABYC sez.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 01:46 PM   #54
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I guess that woiuld work if you were standing right next to the switch and knew that the cables were about to melt.
Not really....monitor start battery voltage and if it doesn't return after releasing start switch...shut down engine and turn off battery switch.....or just listen carefully.

Worked for decades before the ABYC.....but true that some modern boaters can't handle some important decisions and why the ABYC requires us all to wear diapers.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 03:13 PM   #55
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Not really....monitor start battery voltage and if it doesn't return after releasing start switch...shut down engine and turn off battery switch.....or just listen carefully.

Worked for decades before the ABYC.....but true that some modern boaters can't handle some important decisions and why the ABYC requires us all to wear diapers.
Around 75% of powerboats that I see, the battery switches are in the engine compartment which has always struck me curious since the majority of boat fires start in the DC wiring in the engine compartment.
I'd think thats the last hatch you'd want to open to get to a battery switch.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2020, 03:24 PM   #56
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Around 75% of powerboats that I see, the battery switches are in the engine compartment which has always struck me curious since the vast majority of boat fires start in the DC wiring in the engine compartment.
I'd think thats the last hatch you'd want to open to get to a battery switch.
Having had some starters stuck on...its no big deal if wired properly to begin with and if the battery switch is accessible without breaking into a vault.

Not every overheated wire or cable, or starter turns into a raging inferno in just a few minutes...which is plenty of time to get to many battery switches and turn them off.

Sure...like I said...some clueless boaters or really poorly laid out electrical systems are dangerous...but TF tends to focus on the extreme versus the typical.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 08:34 AM   #57
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,435
Scott, totally agree with you on the ABYC. They have devolved into an organization in search of "problems" to solve, however remote the possibility, all to keep us safe. My pet peeve is the requirement for a metal heat shield for the plastic sight bowl on the bottom of Racor filter assemblies. Never mind that more than half of the bowl is still exposed to heat and any fire hot enough to melt that exposed portion will come from a fire so fully-involved that the boat would be long-since doomed to total loss. In my opinion this is a perfect example of the ABYC diaper mentality. But, no doubt ABYC will continue to try to stay relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Not really....monitor start battery voltage and if it doesn't return after releasing start switch...shut down engine and turn off battery switch.....or just listen carefully.

Worked for decades before the ABYC.....but true that some modern boaters can't handle some important decisions and why the ABYC requires us all to wear diapers.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 09:12 AM   #58
Guru
 
Cigatoo's Avatar
 
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,209
Seeing how the fire is already started. How about bilge pump fuses, breakers, or not at all? Maybe no fuse on the secondary/ back up pump?
__________________
Charlie0
Cigatoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 11:58 AM   #59
Senior Member
 
markbarendt's Avatar
 
City: Portland
Vessel Name: 42
Vessel Model: Ocean Marine
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Around 75% of powerboats that I see, the battery switches are in the engine compartment which has always struck me curious since the majority of boat fires start in the DC wiring in the engine compartment.
I'd think thats the last hatch you'd want to open to get to a battery switch.
I'm a believer in both fuses and being able to turn off the power from the the outside of whatever I'm working on. Many years of working on various and sundry machines have taught me that lesson. That's why codes require the main breaker on a house is on the outside.

Somewhere in my boat's history an owner decided the battery switch (1,2,both,off) needed to be at the helm too.

That choice though was put into practice by using a start circuit that included roughly a 40' plus round trip for the start power and a fair number of other wiring choices that became 'convenient' because of that.

Battery switch availability and cable length are the big drivers that got me thinking about using relays and timers as the 'battery switches' for the start, windlass, and thruster circuits. The default setting for each battery switch (the relay) becomes 'battery off' and the cable lengths can be minimized.

One big advantage of using relays as the battery switches is that the 'battery control switches/timers' can be installed anywhere easily using small gauge wire. Cabin and flybridge and even in the engine room.

One example of why I like fuses and intrinsically off setups is that the seller of my boat had to discount the price because the windlass melted down a day or two before we completed the sale for lack of proper fusing and because of a manual battery switch at the helm being bumped into to the 'on' position, it's mounted close to the helmsman's right foot, and very likely a passenger on the boat stepping on the unprotected windlass control switch on the foredeck as they admired a beautiful day on the Hood Canal.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0738.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	138.6 KB
ID:	111363

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0739.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	188.7 KB
ID:	111364

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0740.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	191.7 KB
ID:	111365

Stupid stuff happens when systems are poorly thought through and they don't have fail safes.
markbarendt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2020, 06:21 PM   #60
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,435
Now, who would do any of those things? What is your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigatoo View Post
Seeing how the fire is already started. How about bilge pump fuses, breakers, or not at all? Maybe no fuse on the secondary/ back up pump?
__________________

catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×