Oil/Fluid change pump install

[firstbase]

I have a Reverso 5 port pump, gear unit not impeller. My FL 135's are already plumbed for oil changes with capped hoses form the sumps that rise and sit near the sides of the engines. Another port for my generator which is not plumbed but not a hard thing to do. My question is my BW Velvet Drives. They are not plumbed and I am wondering if, since I have the two open ports on the Reverso, it would be a good thing to plumb the pump to the transmissions. Seems like overkill for a boat that does 150 hours annually (at least for the time being). Would plumbing them be more trouble or invite more trouble than it is worth? My thinking is that anything that makes it easier to change fluids will result in them being changed without procrastination. And that's a good thing! anyone plumbed them to BW VD? What is the proper way to do it? I assume off of the cooler return (I think that's what it is) on the lower port side of the tranny?

 

[drb1025]

I attached a smaller diameter hose to the available port and use it to suck out the transmission fluid.

 

[firstbase]

I attached a smaller diameter hose to the available port and use it to suck out the transmission fluid.

Yes, I can, and might, do that and just roll it up in a bag or some such in-between uses. Just trying to get thoughts on a more permanent set up or am I just making work and adding something else that will cause me trouble. Simple is (usually) better. OK, better all the time.

 

[O C Diver]

My reservation on using the oil cooler line would be that it's under pressure when the engine is running. All the other sumps only have static pressure. Before doing it, I would call Reverso, explain what you intend to do, and see if they have any special instructions. As an example, my ZF gear has an operating pressure around 380 psi. The Reverso manifold valves may not be rated for that pressure.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

And that's why I ask...didn't think about that one. Unless someone has a real good argument about plumbing some other way then this is enough for me to avoid. The trans hose will be hanging about 4 feet away. If I can't handle pulling the dipstick and sticking a hose down in it then... I even have enough ports so that each trans will have its own special hose. That should make them feel very special and not ever break down on me. Right.

 

[Lepke]

I plumbed in an oil pumping system. 2 mains, 2 generators. I use a gear pump and have valves at each engine. I use a centrifuge so don't actually change oil, just pump to a tank and then run thru the centrifuge. My transmissions are an old manual type that use motor oil so they're plumbed in, too. I test the oil once or twice a year.

 

[firstbase]

My reservation on using the oil cooler line would be that it's under pressure when the engine is running........As an example, my ZF gear has an operating pressure around 380 psi. The Reverso manifold valves may not be rated for that pressure.

Ted

Spoke with Reverso, emailed them as well. Tech guy replied:

"Should not be a problem at all, as I believe the valves are rated at either 1,000 or 3,000 PSI, off the top of my head. So as long as you use the appropriate rated hose the valves will handle the 300-400 PSI and the manifold and pump will not be affected."

I don't think this changes my thoughts on the setup but including it here for someones future reference.

 

[dhays]

My reservation on using the oil cooler line would be that it's under pressure when the engine is running. All the other sumps only have static pressure. Before doing it, I would call Reverso, explain what you intend to do, and see if they have any special instructions. As an example, my ZF gear has an operating pressure around 380 psi. The Reverso manifold valves may not be rated for that pressure.

Ted

Wouldn’t you use an inline valve in the hose from the cooler hose to the Reverso pump? My boat has a valve even in the hose from the oil pan to the Reverso pump.

 

[O C Diver]

Spoke with Reverso, emailed them as well. Tech guy replied:

"Should not be a problem at all, as I believe the valves are rated at either 1,000 or 3,000 PSI, off the top of my head. So as long as you use the appropriate rated hose the valves will handle the 300-400 PSI and the manifold and pump will not be affected."

I don't think this changes my thoughts on the setup but including it here for someones future reference.

Still don't think I would do it. If you Tee the oil cooler line and plumb it to the Reverso manifold, I'm guessing you will suck air through the oil cooler side of the loop. To close that side off would require another valve. Complexity increases the risk of operator error (in my experience ).

Wouldn’t you use an inline valve in the hose from the cooler hose to the Reverso pump? My boat has a valve even in the hose from the oil pan to the Reverso pump.

I thought about it when plumbing my system and concluded that there was nothing to be gained over the manifold valve. If you use quality hose, most of the risk is from the hose fitting into the oil pan. A valve in the hose won't reduce that very small risk.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

As they say, my middle name(s) is Operator Error. I don't need to add to my reputation. Again, changing the trans fluid is too easy to try to turn it into something it isn't.... and less frequent than oil changes.

One little bump in my plan is I assumed that the hose from the pan to the fitting used by the PO who changed the oil manually was 1/2". It isn't. It's 3/8". Reverso paperwork says minimum hose ID should be 1/2" and 5/8" preferred. Well darn. Not excited about having to replumb the engines for 1/2" although I don't know what I am talking about and it may be a simple fix. Reverso confuses me as in another part of the paperwork they say to make sure that the oil pan fitting is a minimum of 1/4". Huh? I've emailed them to see what they say...

 

[O C Diver]

As they say, my middle name(s) is Operator Error. I don't need to add to my reputation. Again, changing the trans fluid is too easy to try to turn it into something it isn't.... and less frequent than oil changes.

One little bump in my plan is I assumed that the hose from the pan to the fitting used by the PO who changed the oil manually was 1/2". It isn't. It's 3/8". Reverso paperwork says minimum hose ID should be 1/2" and 5/8" preferred. Well darn. Not excited about having to replumb the engines for 1/2" although I don't know what I am talking about and it may be a simple fix. Reverso confuses me as in another part of the paperwork they say to make sure that the oil pan fitting is a minimum of 1/4". Huh? I've emailed them to see what they say...

There is a difference between hose size and fitting size. If you measure the inside diameter of a 1/4" steel pipe nipple, you will find it's quite a bit larger than 1/4". Simply, measure the inside diameter of hose and fittings to make sure the diameter is 1/2" or larger. Think the fitting on my transmission is only 1/4" pipe thread.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

Thanks. That's my issue at this point. The inside diameter of the hose from the sump up to the connection for the manual pump is 3/8". Just trying to understand why the hose should be 1/2" when the restriction on the sump fitting could be as small as 1/4". Maybe I am missing something....

 

[dhays]

Still don't think I would do it. If you Tee the oil cooler line and plumb it to the Reverso manifold, I'm guessing you will suck air through the oil cooler side of the loop. To close that side off would require another valve. Complexity increases the risk of operator error (in my experience ).







I thought about it when plumbing my system and concluded that there was nothing to be gained over the manifold valve. If you use quality hose, most of the risk is from the hose fitting into the oil pan. A valve in the hose won't reduce that very small risk.



Ted

Good point Ted. As long as the hose used to the Reverso manifold is the right spec, should be good.

 

[O C Diver]

Thanks. That's my issue at this point. The inside diameter of the hose from the sump up to the connection for the manual pump is 3/8". Just trying to understand why the hose should be 1/2" when the restriction on the sump fitting could be as small as 1/4". Maybe I am missing something....

The inside diameter of a 1/4" mpt fitting is 3/8". For the very minimal length of the fitting it poses a very minimal flow reduction. A 3/8" hose with a 3/8" diameter 6' long, poses an exponentially greater flow reduction. This has to do with frictional line loss measured over the length of the hose.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

Thanks Ted. So I should just up size the hose coming off the sump with an adapter of some sort?

 

[O C Diver]

Thanks Ted. So I should just up size the hose coming off the sump with an adapter of some sort?

That's what I would do. The other thing to consider is that the pump system is probably designed to handle cold motor oil. If you pump out the oil when it's warm to hot, the oil has a much lower viscosity and is much easier to pump. Pumping out warm / hot oil after a trip, also increases the likelihood of particulates being suspended in the oil versus being settled on surfaces.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

Yes, pump warm to hot oil. Haven't changed it on this boat but that's how I have done it in the past with other engines/motors. Heard from Reverso and they told me what you would expect, 3/8" a little too small, might not suction properly or will blow the fuse. Recommend the up size to 1/2". I don't understand fluid dynamics so don't understand why a small restriction is ok for a short distance but not for the full hose run. If it has to suck it through the one small opening why can't it handle the full run? I guess it would be the friction of the hose or something. What irritates me the most is that I will have to pull the oil manually in order to empty the pan in order to put an adapter on the drain plug or on the hose immediately up from the plug. I should probably just stop whining about it and change the friggin hose and be done.

 

[Gordon J]

I have a six port on my boat

My reservation on using the oil cooler line would be that it's under pressure when the engine is running. All the other sumps only have static pressure. Before doing it, I would call Reverso, explain what you intend to do, and see if they have any special instructions. As an example, my ZF gear has an operating pressure around 380 psi. The Reverso manifold valves may not be rated for that pressure.

Ted

Plumbed to both gen sets, both boat drive engines and both ZF transmissions. Each line has a stop cock located as close to the equipment as possible. Previous owner installed seven years ago. I have used for two years with no issues.

 

[O C Diver]

I don't understand fluid dynamics so don't understand why a small restriction is ok for a short distance but not for the full hose run. If it has to suck it through the one small opening why can't it handle the full run? I guess it would be the friction of the hose or something.

If you want to understand frictional line loss, go to Home Depot or Lowes. When nobody is looking, put your face against a 10' length of 4" PVC pipe and blow through it as hard and you can. Repeat the process on 1" pipe and then 1/2" pipe. Then go get a 3/8" flat washer and blow through it.

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

Plumbed to both gen sets, both boat drive engines and both ZF transmissions. Each line has a stop cock located as close to the equipment as possible. Previous owner installed seven years ago. I have used for two years with no issues.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

My oil change pump is plumbed to engine, ZF gear, and generator also. Point I was making is that they are plumbed to the oil sumps, not the transmission pump cooling lines.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

Here is what I have on my FL135's for oil changes. Pics below. PO used manual system and the hoses have a 3/8" diameter opening which is too small. Need to increase internal diameter to 1/2" or better yet 5/8". The hoses in the pictures seem very substantial (over kill?). The wire reinforcing can be seen in the pic. Hose seems to be directly connected to the oil drain plug and not held on with a clamp. What is my best approach to changing this to a larger hose? Do I need to change the drain plug?

 

[O C Diver]

If it were mine, I would unscrew the Banjo bolt that holds the swivel to the oil pan. That bolt should be a straight (not pipe ) thread, probably the same as the oil pan plug. Take the hose and the bolt to a hydraulics shop. Tell them you want a fitting to screw (and seal) in the hole where the bolt came out, turn 90 degrees, and become 1/2" id hose or have 1/2" hose barb. They should be able to hook you up.

Btw, you want a good quality hose, but it doesn't need to be 3,000 psi rated hydraulic hose.

Anyway, that's what I would do. Your milage may vary; past performance doesn't guarantee future results; I can only be held liable to the amount of the fee you prepaid for this opinion.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

Thanks Ted. Is there a gasket/washer in place on the banjo bolt, either between the oil pan and the swivel fitting or the head of the bolt and the swivel?

 

[O C Diver]

Thanks Ted. Is there a gasket/washer in place on the banjo bolt, either between the oil pan and the swivel fitting or the head of the bolt and the swivel?

Typically a swivel and banjo bolt have copper compression rings on either side of the swivel. I think I see that copper compression washer between the bolt and the swivel. Between the swivel and the oil pan, it looks more like some form of rubber gasket.

In that application, I would be happier with a nylon washer. That oil pan won't probably stand the torquing required to crush seat the copper washer. The good news is no oil pressure, so sealing is pretty easy.

Ted

 

[firstbase]

How is the hose connected to the fitting? Threaded? Compressed? I am beginning to doubt my Reverso pump purchase. According to American Diesel this system won't work as the inside diameter of the fitting is not wide enough. Too powerful a pump. According to Brian I can't upsize to a 1/2" inner diameter hose. I believe him...almost. If I can't get this to work I will have a Reverso 300 series with 5 ports available for purchase. New in box! Should have just gone with simpler. Which everyone already knowed....but little old me.