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Old 06-13-2020, 08:58 PM   #41
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Mark you’re in for a surprise. I can’t buy the oil and filter at the parts store for what Toyota charges for the oil change.
So they change it.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:29 AM   #42
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May I be controversial? If you drain the engine oil from the lowest point (sump plug) or by using an electric oil pump, you don't need the oil to be warm.
Told you I'd be controversial! The heaviest oil the Reverso pumps on Play d'eau is SAE 40 form the gearboxes and it doesn't hiccup or miss a beat.

As far as warming the oil to stir up muck at the base of the sump, that would have been happening every time you run the engines, and any muck picked up will have been caught by the filters. Hence, i don't see this is an argument.

By warming the oil before draining, much will be left hiding in the galleries so you won't get a full oil change.

However, as with many ways of running a boat (teak cleaning, polishing, mooring, and so, so many more) we all have our own methods which we hold dear.

So, controversial? Yes, I thought it would be. But it works for me, and the bi-annual oil analysis has always (so far) come back 'normal' - and that's after 17 years which I think is not bad at all.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:56 AM   #43
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"As far as warming the oil to stir up muck at the base of the sump, that would have been happening every time you run the engines, and any muck picked up will have been caught by the filters. Hence, i don't see this is an argument."

The hassle is the fine material,( thin like valve grinding paste) passes right thru the filter .Only getting it into suspension and removing it works.

On larger engines two oil tanks are used , so the contaminated oil is exchanged easily by simply throwing a valve. This is for Prime power sets that would power a hospital , or town 24/7/365.
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:59 AM   #44
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Quote "So, controversial? Yes, I thought it would be. But it works for me, and the bi-annual oil analysis has always (so far) come back 'normal' - and that's after 17 years which I think is not bad at all."

Piers
I understand your rationale for draining cold (I dont necessarily agree or do it that way).
I would add that all proper sampling procedures I've read recommend running before pulling the sample and wonder if you follow that recommendation when sampling or just pull a sample when draining cold?
Have you ever done both and compared results with about the same hrs on the oil?
Thnx
Don
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:30 AM   #45
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I have never been able to use a bag on a filter while unscrewing the filter without making a mess. Like grabbing a greased pig. Keep it simple drain the filter then remove it without risk. Add a quick wipe then a bit of duct tape over the drain hole if you are in a hurry.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:03 AM   #46
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Bacchus wrote;
“Have you ever done both and compared results with about the same hrs on the oil?“

Actually we more or les do that every time we change oil. Consider that the oil oil coming out is always black. And what comes out of the can (new oil) is not black. I think the black in oil is carbon. And that’s the biggest reason we change oil. Carbon is abrasive and causes engine “wear” so we get rid of it. I’m only 95% sure the black is carbon so if you’ve got other ideas lets hear them. Read it several to many times though.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:10 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Bacchus wrote;
“Have you ever done both and compared results with about the same hrs on the oil?“

Actually we more or les do that every time we change oil. Consider that the oil oil coming out is always black. And what comes out of the can (new oil) is not black. I think the black in oil is carbon. And that’s the biggest reason we change oil. Carbon is abrasive and causes engine “wear” so we get rid of it. I’m only 95% sure the black is carbon so if you’ve got other ideas lets hear them. Read it several to many times though.
You may be on to something.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:11 PM   #48
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I guess my question was misunderstood as I'm confused by the responses.
What I was asking was
1) Does Piers pull samples when oil is cold / not run & circulated? If so, That is counter to what I've read about recommended sampling procedure.

2) Has anyone pulled a non-circulated cold sample AND one that has been run hot (at the same engine hrs) to see if there is any detectable difference?
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:30 PM   #49
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All the above...... An idea would be, after all the warm ups and etc are done, to drill/tap a hole in the top of the filter. After engine has drained, rotate the filter one half turn and let the remaining oil drain into a jug of some sort. Usually filters don’t drain on the first half turn-ish. It’s worth the try. I’ve seen it don’t before, so.....
Have fun!! 😢
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:49 PM   #50
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With my 6LYA-STP Yanmar I run the engine to heat up the oil then wait about an hour to give most of the oil in the filter (I only have 1) a chance to drain. Then I change the oil. I the wait several hours or if possible the next day to change the filter. I slide a trash bag all the way under the unscrew the filter. Most of what is left in the filter can be caught in the bag. Also, once you remove the filter you will notice a recessed area under the filter that will catch a small amount of oil the you can easily clean up. just have pads and rags handy because it is messy. At boat shows I always make it a point to bitch at the Yanmar sales people about their filter position with the hope that it might get back to engineering. BTW I have tried the drilling the hole option and when you unscrew the filter the oil comes out the front before the hole will get to a bucket.
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:28 PM   #51
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After just a half turn? 🤔 Nest time you change the oil, add an extra half turn! 😃
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:41 AM   #52
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The hassle is the fine material,( thin like valve grinding paste) passes right thru the filter .Only getting it into suspension and removing it works.
Now that's something I'd never considered, always assuming the filter would have removed anything which might have caused problems.

You've provoked me to speak with Cummins (where i did the tech courses) and the oil test facility. I'll post results as soon as poss (COVID delays...)

Hopefully I'm right, but if I'm wrong, I'm really grateful.
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:45 AM   #53
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Piers
I understand your rationale for draining cold (I dont necessarily agree or do it that way).
I would add that all proper sampling procedures I've read recommend running before pulling the sample and wonder if you follow that recommendation when sampling or just pull a sample when draining cold?
Have you ever done both and compared results with about the same hrs on the oil?
Thnx
Don
Morning Don.

When sampling the oil, I've always followed the 'warm the oil first' instructions.

But, your suggestion is a really good idea (experiment?) - I'll do it next time (2021).
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Old 06-15-2020, 02:37 PM   #54
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Please update us with results if you do the comparison.
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Old 06-16-2020, 12:15 AM   #55
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Please update us with results if you do the comparison.
Hi Don,

I will.

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