Which new engine to replace Ford Lehman 120?

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Larry H

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
359
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Jacari Maru
Vessel Make
2014 Ranger Tug R-27
A friend of mine has a twin engine 42ft trawler. Both Ford Lehman 120hp engines need an overhaul. The prices quoted to remove, overhaul, and reinstall are running $30k to $50k.

Has anyone replaced the FL 120 with a new different engine?

What engines are suitable? I have heard that John Deer and Yanmar engines are possibilities.

Thanks for any help.
 
I'd take a look at reman Cummins 6BTs.
 
Look into Mercedes. That's what I have. Extremely quiet.
 
Too much money. Call Industrial Engines in Delta, BC. They rebuild and sell rebuilt Lehmans. That way it's a straight swap, same transmissions etc.

What is wrong with the "old" ones? Having two go to the wall at the same time is unusual. I'll bet it's something simple...

Plus you get a good deal with our crap Loonie.
 
Rebuilding seems the way to go...


LarryM just had a thread on here where he rebuilt with costs associated...search or PM him.....but $30K sounds about right and way less than replacements.
 
Not sure Yanmars would be my choice for a trawler, Deere would be much more than the quoted replacement /rebuild cost of existing motors....
 
Repowering is great in that one gets the option of changing your power. Many boats are overpowered and when you repower you are in the drivers seat and can get whatever engine you want. Many boats have power assigned by salesmen and other marketing sources. Not what the NA had in mind at all.

When I repowered I enjoyed the shopping and research. I have a boat that is and was propperly powered but I considered everything as I went along. Engine mounts can be a problem and frequently having the exhaust on the same side helps.

As for the FL MER (in Seattle) has/had as close to a drop in replacement as I have seen. It was a 135hp John Deer. But that's a same power engine. So first you need to consider if the original power is appropriate or if a change would be better. The GB 36 could be repowered w a pair of 55 to 85hp engines or a pair of lighter engines that make more power. Consider resale value if you change the amount of power. Look at the Vetus offerings. Look at everything you can find. Have your range of acceptable dimensions to compare to possible engine and gearboxs. All the while trying to fit possible installers to all the locations and providers. Used equipment is also a posibility but if you can go w new.
 
Plenty of suitable engines, but consider the cost of changeover. Different mounts and locations, new wiring, new instruments, gearbox changes, cooling system fresh and raw water changes, and so on. Much more economic to rebuild or exchange Lehman to Lehman, and you know beforehand it`s a good economic engine.
 
The path of least resistance would be to rebuild the Lehmans as long as you can still get all of the needed parts. Call Brian Smith to see if he would recommend a rebuilder in your area.
 
Not sure Yanmars would be my choice for a trawler, Deere would be much more than the quoted replacement /rebuild cost of existing motors....

I had a small trawler w a small Yanmar. Was perfect.

The high output per engine displacement would make a Yanmar inperfect I admit. However with that aside I see no reason not to choose a Yanmar in a reasonable output level .. or any similar engine.
 
A strong consideration on repowering should be parts and service availability in your area and along routes you plan to cruise.
That said, I would buy Cummins 6bt motors and derate them at the throttle stop to the desired output.
 
I'd rebuild, too. Too many add-on costs and surprise costs associated with a twin re-engine.
 
I'd rebuild, too. Too many add-on costs and surprise costs associated with a twin re-engine.
Redoing the exhaust systems too. Forgot that one, and probably several more messy alterations.
 
I would definitely rebuild. However if you really want Lehman does have an exact replacement new engine that fits precisely and matches to the transmission. I think you get another 10 or 15 hp. Call Brian for sure.
 
A friend of mine has a twin engine 42ft trawler. Both Ford Lehman 120hp engines need an overhaul. The prices quoted to remove, overhaul, and reinstall are running $30k to $50k.

Has anyone replaced the FL 120 with a new different engine?

What engines are suitable? I have heard that John Deer and Yanmar engines are possibilities.

Thanks for any help.

Lehmans can be overhauled in place, down to the block - even the main bearings and crankshafts. Has he looked into that option..?
 
A friend of mine has a twin engine 42ft trawler. Both Ford Lehman 120hp engines need an overhaul. The prices quoted to remove, overhaul, and reinstall are running $30k to $50k.

Has anyone replaced the FL 120 with a new different engine?

What engines are suitable? I have heard that John Deer and Yanmar engines are possibilities.

Thanks for any help.

If I'm reading this right, $30K isn't horrible for 2 engine rebuilds depending on what's involved. If he's not doing the work himself, new repower of twins could easily $80K to $120K.

Ted
 
Another Lehman rebuilder to contact is Tacoma Diesel. A few years ago at the Seattle boat show a booth had a totally rebuilt Lehman. I can't recall the Seattle area rebuilder - they offered a good warranty. Look around you'll find a good rebuilder if that is the route you choose. Have you talked to North Harbor Diesel in Anacortes?
 
Here is the case for repower with a remanned Cummins 6BT:

Pros:
1. Brand new engine with full factory warranty
2. Resale value- same engine as was in later GB 42s
3. No downtime waiting for rebuild
4. Same exhaust side as Lehman-- minimal modification to exhaust

Cons:
1. Probably requires new transmission for torque and ratio change- VD 72
2. Requires new engine mount brackets
3. Requires installing new helm instruments

The cost of a pair of 6BTs is about $45K, two new transmissions is $6000. Installation labor is $10-20K. So worst case $70K vs $50K for overhauling or replacing the Lehmans.

I would gladly pay the $20K premium to get brand new engines and transmissions that are based on 25 year newer technology.

David
 
Consider resale value if you change the amount of power.
This is what concerns me. The typical 40ft. or so trawler requires less than 100 hp to drive it along at hull speed all day long. So a pair of 85-90hp motors would be great, providing plenty of power for normal motoring, and adequate get-home power if one engine dies.

But most trawlers come with several times that much power. I've seen boats clearly designed for mostly hull-speed operations that have 5-6 times as much power as they need. Are there really that many boaters out there who are willing to see their GPH triple in exchange for going 40% faster!?! I guess there must be.

And if I repower to a more reasonable hp level, am I going to kill the resale value? Will everyone who considers my boat say to themselves (doing their best Tim The Tool-Man imitation), "Arr, arr, arr! Need more power!"?
 
There isn't any downside to operating twin 210 hp Cummins 6BTs at 50 hp each.

If anything with proper transmission ratios and propping the Cummins will operate a hundred rpm less than the Lehman, when both are putting out 50 hp, so the Cummins will be slightly more efficient. Both have essentially the same displacement so parasitic losses will be the same or less for the Cummins. And at that loading you might also pick up a little efficiency from the turbo but I wouldn't expect much boost at that power.

The upside is that in x years when he sells the boat, it opens up the market to Bubbas who think they need 400 hp to go fast, well unless you only want to sell to us purists ;-).

David
 
Denver,
There was a GB 36 on yachtworld a few years ago that had twin 55hp JH Yanmars. Sold fairly quickly and it was a woodie.

David wrote;
"There isn't any downside to operating twin 210 hp Cummins 6BTs at 50 hp each."
Yes there is. Weight and cost. Many trawler twins in the 36' range are overweight. But a 200+ hp engine is going to cost much more than a 65hp engine.
 
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Here is the case for repower with a remanned Cummins 6BT:

Pros:
1. Brand new engine with full factory warranty
2. Resale value- same engine as was in later GB 42s
3. No downtime waiting for rebuild
4. Same exhaust side as Lehman-- minimal modification to exhaust

Cons:
1. Probably requires new transmission for torque and ratio change- VD 72
2. Requires new engine mount brackets
3. Requires installing new helm instruments

The cost of a pair of 6BTs is about $45K, two new transmissions is $6000. Installation labor is $10-20K. So worst case $70K vs $50K for overhauling or replacing the Lehmans.

I would gladly pay the $20K premium to get brand new engines and transmissions that are based on 25 year newer technology.

David

If you're going from 120 to 220+ HP, there may be an issue with shaft size depending on what's currently in the boat. Will probably need different propellers also.

Ted
 
....Has anyone replaced the FL 120 with a new different engine?

What engines are suitable? I have heard that John Deer and Yanmar engines are possibilities.

Thanks for any help.

Larry: I received this email back in 2011 so the numbers are probably low. This was to replace our single, Ford Lehman SP135. Has your friend talked to Harbor Marine in Everett? The last time we were in there they had a couple of rebuilt FL120s on the floor. https://www.harbormarine.net/

G'day, Lena and Larry.
*
We would have several recommendations for you to consider, and really what it comes down to is your cruising speed expectations along with the required hours of durability, or cruising range either at normal operating RPM, or for extended range operations.

First, visit our web-site, www.northern-lights, and under Lugger engine models L1064A or L1066T engines copy the brochures, for reference. In addition, for purposes of consumption comparatives, remember that 1 gallon of diesel should produce 20HP at the transmission input shaft, with a 3% estimated parasitic loss in the transmission.

Taking your average fuel consumption of your Lehman Ford, probably somewhere between 2 to 3 gallons per hour, you were using 40-60 HP to cruise your KK-42 between 7-8 knots, and when you compare this to either engine performance, your would be operating your engine at less than 50% of the rated capacity for the engines.

The physical dimensions of the engines will compare very close to your existing Lehman, the L1064A engine would be shorter of course, since it is only a 4 cylinder engine. To elaborate further, both Lugger models begin life as John Deere Industrial engines, then we marinize the engines to suit our requirements which are somewhat different from the standard John Deere Marine engines, also available to you and standard on all current KK models. Since we have been marinizing the Deere engine for 25 years longer than Deere, we think we know something about what is required for our customers, so we continue to use their engine, done our way.

So you will have options, from very limited changes in the scope of supply between your existing engine, 12V, single high amperage alternator, HE cooling, Twin Disc or ZF transmission with a 2 1/2 to 1 reduction gear, wiring harness, panel, wet exhaust elbow, all matching what you have, so it can slip into the engine spaces without any severe compromises. But, what other changes would you wish to make, such as stabilizers, thrusters, dual alternators, drive options for other solutions, and etc, that you would want to incorporate into your repower project?

Pricing will range from $34,500 to $39,000, depending upon the model selected and the transmission requirements, and available accessory options tailored to your requirements.
Fit should be very close to your existing Lehman, and if you wish to receive a quotation, we would first request that your complete the application questionnaire available on the web-site.

I hope that you will continue your interest and respond with a quotation request that results from receiving your questionnaire. You may be directed to one of our offices that may be closer to you, so if an inspection and consultation is necessary, we can accommodate your interest and timing.

Thank you for your interest and we look forward to your response.


Regards, Steve Scholz,
Director, Asia Pacific Marine Market
 
Rarely do these Fords need to be "rebuilt" in rec trawler application. Usually something has gone wrong, and that needs to be fixed. Many components are likely fine for continued use.

So no good advice can be given unless it is known what the problem is with the existing engines.

If he wants to go with new engines, there is a good argument to go that way. You can get what you want, get warranty, spec them for the specific boat and use, etc. But it will be more expensive.
 
But a 200+ hp engine is going to cost much more than a 65hp engine.
And weigh more. And use more oil at every oil change. And need more expensive motor mounts. And with more cylinders will be more expensive to do injector and valve maintenance on. And... And... And...

There are a number of downsides to running engines that are far larger than appropriate for the way you are using them. The only downside to having appropriately sized engines (that I can think of) is that you won't be able to sell to those Bubbas who want to be able to water ski behind their trawlers!
 
Whenever someone is considering re-powering their boat, it is worthwhile reviewing all those other tasks which are much easier done with the engines out.

Fuel tank replacement, Painting the bilge, soundproofing, fuel filter or manifold upgrade, bilge pumps, raw water intake system.
 
Aus Can,
A big yes. We replaced our fuel tanks.
 
A friend of mine has a twin engine 42ft trawler. Both Ford Lehman 120hp engines need an overhaul. The prices quoted to remove, overhaul, and reinstall are running $30k to $50k.

Has anyone replaced the FL 120 with a new different engine?

What engines are suitable? I have heard that John Deer and Yanmar engines are possibilities.

Thanks for any help.

With enough money, you can put any engines in your boat.

By far, the simplest thing to do is have your existing engines repaired or rebuilt or replace them with rebuilt (or used) engines of the same type. No modifications to wiring, transmission, electrical or gauges and controls.

Switch models or brands and you open up a can of worms.
 
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