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Old 12-26-2018, 04:28 PM   #121
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The MSDS sheet for a product usually tells the ingredients. MSDS has new names. Usually when you read the ingredients of additives it becomes apparent that your money is better spent elsewhere.

I don't know of an MSDS sheet or ingredient list for rude but I can usually dish out a batch of it if anyone comes up short.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:24 PM   #122
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I suspect many additives are largely a comfort to the user,but even that can be worthwhile. An orthopaedic surgeon recently told me glucosamine(for arthritis), "is at best a placebo".
That said,I have used an oil additive in my genset which fixed cylinder glazing. Either that, or there was a great coincidence.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:50 PM   #123
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The best thing you can do for your engine is to run it often. ZDDP is primarily for wear protection while Camguard is designed to help retard the formation of corrosion. If you run your boat a lot, say weekly trips of one hour or more then corrosion shouldn't be a problem. Just starting the boat and idling does not help as the oil won't get hot enough to drive the moisture out of the oil. In that case you end up with acid compounds staying in the engine.
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:24 PM   #124
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I've posted this before, but it worth recalling. The only comprehensive test of lubricity changes with different additives that I know of. Interestingly, MMO reduces lubricity, so if that's your aim, have at it. But at least it was better than Valvetech….

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:24 AM   #125
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I suspect many additives are largely a comfort to the user,but even that can be worthwhile. An orthopaedic surgeon recently told me glucosamine(for arthritis), "is at best a placebo".
That said,I have used an oil additive in my genset which fixed cylinder glazing. Either that, or there was a great coincidence.


We used to give our dog glucosamine. Within two days she went from laying down all the time to bouncing around in the morning. We ran out and kind of figured it was just quackery and she went back to lethargy. Bought a new bag and again, bouncing around. This was a crazy smart dog that knew way way way too many words and could translate much from a single glance of your face. Maybe she could actually perceive our bias. I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure she never learned to read the ingredients. Pretty sure.

Bias is a very strong, and incidentally very very interesting mechanic. In my world of data science I tell people that we try to understand bias. It’s a mistake to think that bias is ever really eliminated or simply removed. The best you can do is to be sincerely aware of where it may be present.

Interesting, one of these oil additive discussions came up elsewhere as it does. As a not at all veiled joke, I smugly asked why not just use acetone in the fuel. That thread went for another whole week, just on the amazing benefits of acetone. So I try not to poke fun at additive discussions anymore.

I’m most comfortable in the land of observable and provable, most especially measurable. That said, just because you have not figured out how to measure something yet does not mean you should over indulge your bias that it has been therefore disproven. Measurement is actually a fascinating never ending world of puzzles, more so than a road with a single endpoint.

Socrates was probably just knowingly stirring the pot.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:01 PM   #126
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Human-Thought "Bias" starts form a well conceived or ill conceived precept. From its beginning on an item of any sort bias can quickly expand into layers/levels of biases. Only a fully open mind enables the thinking-feature of weights and measures to clearly dissect each bias for determination as to its contents and rationalizations. Not all bias is bad. Bias can also be called a thought filled "Considered Opinion"


Personally I am very bias toward [i.e. in favor of] bananas. One to two, sometimes even three, is my every day allotment. Potassium among other good nutrients are reason why.


Look closely at wild gorillas... they are banana built and maintained! Need I say more!!
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:51 PM   #127
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I really like bananas but my digestive portion limiting apparatus can get pretty rude if I attempt excessive consumption standards.

We have Standards Organizations that exist to label products meeting some functional standard. Uncertified products meet standards for revenue production but it is uncertain of any further value.

Frozen bananas blended with a sweetener and a dairy product make instant ice cream. Works with other frozen fruit too, like blueberries. Warning, it can ruin you.


Dog supplements can contain steroids or precursors. Steroids make a puppy of a pile of aged dog fluff.


Watching gorilla videos may get you on a special list at some information bureau if the gorillas get too personal with each other.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:15 PM   #128
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I really like bananas but my digestive portion limiting apparatus can get pretty rude if I attempt excessive consumption.

We have Standards Organizations that exist to label products meeting some functional standard. Uncertified products meet standards for revenue production but it is uncertain of any further value.

Frozen bananas blended with a sweetener and a dairy product make instant ice cream. Works with other frozen fruit too, like blueberries. Warning, it can ruin you.


Dog supplements can contain steroids or precursors. Steroids make a puppy of a pile of aged dog fluff.


Watching gorilla videos may get you on a special list at some information bureau if the gorillas get too personal with each other.
During one sequence in life, when young and traveling [i.e. near penniless], I 'd fry up "Strongheart" meat dog food [ya might recall... came in a tin can same size as Campbell soup; had picture of a German Shepard on its paper wrapper]. Not too bad with catsup and potatoes, when real hungry! I remember it was 0.19 per can...
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:59 PM   #129
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Interesting, you are all skirting around the quasi-religious beliefs we cling to based on hearsay, anecdotes and what-my-grandfather-did-to his-Model T assertions. Interesting to examine your beliefs and why you actually do believe them and why they are so hard to discard. No wonder climate change/pollution/carbon taxes and that latest climate/religious stuff can find such traction.

No point to this. Just saying'.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:59 PM   #130
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What a coincidence. Doesn't Campbells make StrongHeart labeled soup? Sounds like it meets their standards. Maybe they used another name.

Don't you love oil threads?

When I was young and penniless I had some 19 cent can. Maybe better leave that one alone.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:19 PM   #131
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Ghost, I suspect your dog took a sly look at the glucosamine pack.. I stopped taking it and noticed no detriment.
We`ve had several aging arthritic German Shepherds on "Cartrophen". Last time we put a dog on it the vet joked about owners reporting immediate positive responses. We already knew it takes 2 weeks to work. But, we returned home from the vet, and she immediately climbed the 20 stairs in the house she had not ascended in months,and she looked happy.
Dog remedies are way more interesting than oil additives. Especially if they work.
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:22 PM   #132
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Someone questioned my credentials to comment on oil additives. I graduated from the school of hard knocks. That said I have a small fleet of 50 OTR trucks as well as a pilot and operator of many piston engine powered aircraft. I also supplied Ed Kolen oil analysis to see what effect the use of Camguard was on our engines. We were not compensated for supplying to data nor do I have any financial interest in Camguard. We saw fairly significant reductions in FE in our post Camguard tests. Other trace metals declined as well, but the most significant reduction was FE. Oxidized FE is rust, something you don't want in the engine.

I'm not a chemist, but the product data supplied by Marvel Mystery oil suggest that at best it may serve as a solvent and remove some undesirable gunk that accumulates on various engine parts. Does it help your engine? Possibly, but i`ve yet to see a scientific study demonstrating the benefits.

My intention is not to flame here. Like others I want to report on what has or has not worked to extend the life of our engines. If you like Seafoam or Marvel Mystery oil go ahead and use it. I don't think it will harm your engine. It may also lead to temporary improvement in engine operation.

ZDDP has been used as an additive in engine oils for years and it has been demonstrated to improve oil performance.

In the end, the single most important thing,we can do for our engines is to service them often and operate them often.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:25 AM   #133
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It`s called Mystery Oil for a reason. It`s a mystery,and it will likely remain one.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:58 AM   #134
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It`s called Mystery Oil for a reason. It`s a mystery,and it will likely remain one.
The words "Marvel" and "Mystery", in similarity to words such as shazam, presto, abracadabra, unbelievable and the like, hold ethereal grip on peoples fantasy mind.

By words chosen for product heading... The initial marketing team for Marvel Mystery Oil were pure genius!

After many decades this "magic" type of non definable lubrication fluid still holds firm grip on peoples fantasy minds. Strong enough to continue getting thousands of relatively well versed boaters, car enthusiasts and airplane pilots to spend hours in discussion regarding it.

Such comes to mind this old saying for product promotions... All news is good news when the news ends up making more and more news that leads to continued sales!

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Old 12-28-2018, 11:31 AM   #135
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Marketing is a powerful force. Read an article about a cosmetic product and its marketing. They never stated a purpose for the product and it sold very well anyway. Maybe Oil of Olay?

Additives marketed to men as cosmetics to women? I'm really showing my shelf-life here.

How about health benefits of wine? If wine has trace chemicals with health benefits, wouldn't cognac have more? Remy, anyone? To your health. I've never heard a word about the heath benefits of cognac but read an article that said marketing red wine to women has been a very lucrative pursuit.

Logical fallacies, the language of marketing and propaganda, should be required study for all students.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:36 PM   #136
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How about health benefits of wine? If wine has trace chemicals with health benefits, wouldn't cognac have more? Remy, anyone? To your health. I've never heard a word about the heath benefits of cognac but read an article that said marketing red wine to women has been a very lucrative pursuit.

Logical fallacies, the language of marketing and propaganda, should be required study for all students.
I can tell you this. I was doing some heart work up data gathering. I had a 24 hour monitor on as well as logging blood pressure. I did have 2 glasses of wine that night and it definitely slowed my hear rate and lowered my blood pressure. I think it is proven to help and it has something to do with the antioxidants. I have come to the very unscientific conclusion that any food/
liquid that stains, is good for you!!!!
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:45 PM   #137
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Marketing is a powerful force. Read an article about a cosmetic product and its marketing. They never stated a purpose for the product and it sold very well anyway. Maybe Oil of Olay?

Additives marketed to men as cosmetics to women? I'm really showing my shelf-life here.

How about health benefits of wine? If wine has trace chemicals with health benefits, wouldn't cognac have more? Remy, anyone? To your health. I've never heard a word about the heath benefits of cognac but read an article that said marketing red wine to women has been a very lucrative pursuit.

Logical fallacies, the language of marketing and propaganda, should be required study for all students.

Wine and cognac are not comparable nor is Armagnac etc. Cognac is alcohol obtained by distillation of white wines, and wine well is wine and not a distilla.
Health benefit is related to red wine and linked to tannins and antioxidants not alcohol.

Maybe using a shot of cognac in engine oil would provide some benefit, don't know

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Old 12-28-2018, 01:24 PM   #138
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I have come to the very unscientific conclusion that any food/
liquid that stains, is good for you!!!!
I like this. It goes along with another theory I heard. If you squish something and it washes away with plain water it is less likely to hurt you.


Don't think I've ever heard of Armagnac, thanks.


What is the difference between a Cognac and Armagnac?
Unsurprisingly, Cognac is made in Cognac and Armagnac is made in Armagnac, in the Gascony region. While the two carry similarities, they also have some differences. ... However, Cognac typically only uses the Ugni Blanc grape, while Armagnac uses three additional grape varietals: Folle blanche, Colombard, and Baco Blanc.Jul 13, 2015


How about Kvass and beet rum? Gotta put hair on your chest?
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:31 PM   #139
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As long as we are discussing additives, I general now, my flight surgeon said alcohol in limited quantities is good for your heart and vascular system, the antioxidants are supposed to be good too.
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:51 PM   #140
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It looks like it’s drifting a little so I’ll add my 2 cents . I’m sure most of you know that I’ve had my share of heart trouble. Five or six stents (lost count ) two open heart surgeries and countless attempts to make the last open heart surgery work . I now have permanent heart damage,15% to be exact. I take under the tongue nitroglycerin almost daily .
I know for a fact if I’ve had a couple glasses of red wine or a couple rum drinks I don’t wake up in the middle of the night reaching for my nitro like I have to on the nights I don’t have a drink . Not diagnosing but I ain’t lying either.
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