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Old 11-06-2015, 10:08 AM   #81
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Opinions should all be taken with some skepticism. TF or professional it really does not matter other than to those who think if they pay for something it has more value.
In the case of additives like MMO or other practices the vast majority of posts are based on limited sample size. Only after large number of samples are properly analyzed and all other variables are eliminated can some conclusion be reached with a reasonable degree of confidence. That someone has used XYZ product for years without problems doesn't prove anything any more than someone who smokes for years without problems.


OTOH a few busted knuckles or rounded nuts will quickly teach that box wrenches are safer and do a better job that open or adjustable wrenches. A small sample size provides meaningful data in that case. That opinion is worth considering by each reader.


I too have some trusted professional sources but even then I carefully question their answers. perhaps I'll learn something or perhaps they will.




Funny thing about these discussions is that engine makers require certain operating conditions when their engines are under warranty and they will pay for failure. Despite that people regularly operate outside those parameters when the cost of failure is on them and report no problems. Who knows better the maker or the owner?
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:12 AM   #82
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Marin,
Not going to quote your post but I'm quite sure you discovered STP works. Every time you used it your engine knocked. If you do it three times it's scientifically valid. But I'm sure the knocking was combustion .. not mechanical .. as FF suggested.

Funny you should mention Castrol 20W50. The guy I bought the little car from was the original owner (his wife) and she/he used Castrol 10W30 for 270K miles. They took it to a garage for all (every 3000) oil changes and the garage put in "Risoline" .. an additive that is essentially SeaFoam. Extremely high detergent. As soon as I switched to 20W50 (w/o the Risoline) my clutch stopped slipping. The rear main seal was probably worn out and oil was leaking onto the clutch. With the 20W50 oil the leaking stopped or slowed enough to allow the clutch to start working again most of the time. Lucky me.

Am I equating the mechanic for my Nissan to Bob Smith? Definitely. Neither engine or engines need or needed the additives and in one case WAY down the road (literally) a problem occurred from using the additive.

But my point is that mechanics are great and we should pay them well for what they do but they are not engineers. Their knowledge is limited and their exposure to science is usually much more limited so it's not uncommon for subjective advice to come from mechanics at times. But I usually listen to them closely but also usually question what they say. Lots of things mechanics said in the past has been thorally debunked now.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:35 AM   #83
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i Only use Marvel Mystery Oil to help free up stuck valves, lifters and rings in engines that have sat for awhile. Diesels will burn it when squirted into the intake to give dry cylinders and rings a bit of extra oil to seal when turning over. Other than that, it doesn't do much. It's good for getting old engines going and kinda flushing out the old oil and crud. Then change oil and get back on a normal lube and fuel schedule. I've done this with many gas and diesel engines over the years. Regular use of MMO once up and running regularly doesn't do anything that I've seen.

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DITTO! My first experience with MMO was in 1970 when I had a sailboat with a converted flathead jeep Universal 75HP gas enging. The valves were all burned and I was broke and it would not start- a volunteer mechanic remover the head and valves and did best he could lapping them. He replacedthe head and valves and had me turn over engine while he poured a steady stream of WWO into it. It started! and ithh only 10PSI on 2 cylinders, he kept pouring it in making a big whit cloud. Engine ran for next 2 years ok! Since then Ive been doing MMO and Im now 81. Going to put 2 quarts in my Lexus tomorrow!
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:49 AM   #84
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As Eric stated, MMO is a good cutting oil. I like to use it as a honing oil when I sharpen my pocket knife. I have no opinion of it as a fuel additive.
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:30 AM   #85
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Going to put 2 quarts in my Lexus tomorrow!
Hopefully in the trunk.
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:46 AM   #86
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Interesting study...

Can you tell us the date of the study?

Thanks Gordon
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:55 AM   #87
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Can you tell us the date of the study?

Thanks Gordon
For years I too used that study/testing as a shining light in my efforts to protect my diesels, only to have a trusted source say it was a flawed test...something to do with how they either did or measured scuffing (IIRC).

So like many things in life.... read everything, digest what you can, roll the dice on what makes sense to you and hope for the best....because any on source of info...including straight from an engine manufacturer isn't necessarily complete or even as accurate as it needs to be to apply to individuals and how they run tneir engines.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:09 AM   #88
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MSDS sheets for additive products can be very revealing. Often they are almost entirely a "filler" product. Sometimes there is also a tiny fraction of a percent "magic goo".

They have new names for MSDS sheets now. A simple search will find them.

Rudolph Diesel reportedly set out to invent an engine that would burn agricultural waste products as fuel. He did, but I think the myths are far larger than the reality. An engine expected to run for thousands of hours needs clean air, oil and fuel. Keep it clean. OT: Keep your blood clean too.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:14 AM   #89
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PSN

And, that cited study had bio diesel as the number one additive. Which then raises the question as to who really paid for the study?

The diesel fuel tested was not a final refinery product thus had no additives at all. Why not use refiner's data as to how lubricity is enhanced for real world final users?

The time period for the study, about 12 years ago, was a tough time for the pickup truck and auto diesel builders. EPA mandates had screwed down diesel emissions to a very low level. Guess what, the foundation for diesel gate was laid. Nefarious chip programming was born.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:31 AM   #90
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Yep...Rick sent me an email after I once posted a link to that study.

Made my tiny brain hurt after about paragraph 2 with the tech talk.

Wish I had 1/1000 the engineering background and comprehension he has..... a fabulous mentor and "keep me in the know" friend.... best part...always has links or sources for me to follow up with so there is no doubt he too has come up with more than just a personal experience or two or a fact low opinion.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:24 PM   #91
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MSDS sheets for additive products can be very revealing. Often they are almost entirely a "filler" product. Sometimes there is also a tiny fraction of a percent "magic goo".

They have new names for MSDS sheets now. A simple search will find them.

Rudolph Diesel reportedly set out to invent an engine that would burn agricultural waste products as fuel. He did, but I think the myths are far larger than the reality. An engine expected to run for thousands of hours needs clean air, oil and fuel. Keep it clean. OT: Keep your blood clean too.
What about engine like Hercules engines designed to run on everything available in the field? These so called multifuel engines were made to run on anything that can be burned, from diesel, gasoline, vegetable oil, used engine oil and so on. Read about guys who ran them with old tranny oil even if the smell was weird

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Old 09-08-2018, 05:45 PM   #92
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What about engine like Hercules engines designed to run on everything available in the field? These so called multifuel engines were made to run on anything that can be burned, from diesel, gasoline, vegetable oil, used engine oil and so on. Read about guys who ran them with old tranny oil even if the smell was weird

L
It is a mind boggling idea. I've heard of them but never had experience with them.

I have seen Mercedes diesel engines run on a variety of alternate fuels and there has been a lot of time dedicated to making it work.

This links to a forum for discussion of running a diesel on vegetable oil. They are primarily a biodiesel forum but have sub-forums for other fuels as well.

Biodiesel & SVO Discussion forum Home


I suspect the old Ford tractor motor could chug along on veg oil.
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Old 09-08-2018, 05:58 PM   #93
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It is a mind boggling idea. I've heard of them but never had experience with them.

I have seen Mercedes diesel engines run on a variety of alternate fuels and there has been a lot of time dedicated to making it work.

This links to a forum for discussion of running a diesel on vegetable oil. They are primarily a biodiesel forum but have sub-forums for other fuels as well.

Biodiesel & SVO Discussion forum Home


I suspect the old Ford tractor motor could chug along on veg oil.
And it is not a new concept, M35 army trucks were powered by these multifuel engines 60+ years ago!
From wikipedia:
Quote:
Multifuel engines are designed to operate reliably on a wide variety of fuels, including diesel fuel, jet fuel, kerosene, heating oil or gasoline. Gasoline may be used only in an emergency because it does not properly lubricate the injector pump. While using gasoline, common practice calls for the addition of at least 1 U.S. quart of clean motor oil per 15 U.S. gallons of gasoline (1*imp*qt/13*imp*gal; 1 L/60 L) for proper pump lubrication where available.
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:07 PM   #94
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Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AR9100.pdf (1.52 MB, 23 views)
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:47 PM   #95
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Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.



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Old 09-09-2018, 05:20 PM   #96
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This thread is like the Walking Dead. It just won’t die.
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Old 09-09-2018, 05:55 PM   #97
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Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.
Hi Lepke

I respect your input and read Archoil AR9100 link you provided; also watched a few video on that barrier lube fluid.

Have been using ZDDP 4oz. zinc additive with each oil change on my classic engines not having cat converters. Zinc clogs cat converters. AR9100 evidentially does not clog the converters. Also, I feel need to add a second 4oz ZDDP at 1/2 way between oil changes because zinc barrier film dissipates during use. Archoil AR9100 evidently does not dissipate.

I'm going to do more research on Archoil AR9100. Hope to use it in newer engines with cat converters. May also use it in classic flat tappet engines I own. Wonder how well Archoil AR9100 and ZDDP work together in older gasoline engines.

Any thoughts you may like to provide are appreciated.
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Old 09-09-2018, 06:00 PM   #98
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This thread is like the Walking Dead. It just won’t die.
Taint notten dead bout an engine liven longer due to good barrier lubes!

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Old 09-09-2018, 06:03 PM   #99
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Admin. Please move this thread to : Sub-Forums:
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Old 09-09-2018, 06:12 PM   #100
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Admin. Please move this thread to : Sub-Forums:
Hope that is a just kidding joke.

Nothing wrong with a robust discussion regarding lubricants - Is there??
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