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Old 06-21-2020, 09:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Leoka
It may well be that the heat exchanger for the engine and transmission are fouled. Suggest you remove both and clean them. Are there any other restriction points in the raw water cooling system that could easily be undone and checked for obstruction with debris or old impeller parts. I've seen overheats on a land based 3306 when radiator gets clogged with dirt and dust, same principal, clean out time.

Once the raw water cooling system is cleaned and checked out, if it is still overheating then the coolant pump and system need attention. Any sign of water in oil after raw water pump changeout?


There is good sea water flow coming out on the side. I donít know, if there is debris in the system, but I checked the strainer, where the sea water is coming in.
Perhaps, as the temp goes up, more sea water should come in and I cannot see the difference?
There is a heat exchanger inside the expansion tank, based on the manual, which is not easy to access.
There is another heat exchanger at the hose coming out of the heat exchanger, which cools the transmission. That is easy to access, so I can start with that one. See picture.Click image for larger version

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Old 06-21-2020, 09:30 AM   #22
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Leokachangeout?

Do you know what is the top sensor for? You can see it removed on my previous post.
The lower one is the water temp sender, which I replaced. I donít know what the other suppose to do?
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Old 06-21-2020, 09:32 AM   #23
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Any sign of water in oil after raw water pump changeout?


No, no more vapor and the filter is clean on the top.
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Old 06-21-2020, 12:06 PM   #24
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Does the temperature gauge show it's overheating ?? Not sure from your post.

One post you said the water temp was 160-170. That seems low. Or maybe normal until it's under a load.

Maybe it's the overheat alarm malfunctioning..
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Old 06-21-2020, 12:16 PM   #25
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Does the temperature gauge show it's overheating ?? Not sure from your post.



One post you said the water temp was 160-170. That seems low. Or maybe normal until it's under a load.



Maybe it's the overheat alarm malfunctioning..


Yes, once the gauge in the PH reaches 182-183F the alarm comes on. At 180F it is still quiet.

The 160-170F was at the beginning for a while, just idling in neutral. It slowly went up, when I put it into gear at low rpm.

Last weekend, when I did 12 hours engine run on the trip, the average temp was 160-170 all the way. Since, I have the boat, the 165-175 range was normal all the time.
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Old 06-21-2020, 08:01 PM   #26
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182-183 seems awful low for an alarm. Did you ever find an engine book ? What does it recommend for the running temp ? What was the temp of the thermostat you put in ?
Your going to have to find the specs.

I don't have a Cat diesel and don't claim to be a mechanic. I always thought an alarm should come on around 210 + degrees. My Perkins runs around 200 @ cruise, 1800 rpm by the gauge. Maybe a little less. if your running at 180 or so I'd be surprised if that's overheating. How much higher does the gauge go ??

The sender you wanted to know about. With the key on or power on touch the wire to the engine block. If the alarm sounds it's the alarm sender.

Might be time to find a pro and see whats normal for your engine.
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Old 06-21-2020, 09:28 PM   #27
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182-183 seems awful low for an alarm. Did you ever find an engine book ? What does it recommend for the running temp ? What was the temp of the thermostat you put in ?
Your going to have to find the specs.

I don't have a Cat diesel and don't claim to be a mechanic. I always thought an alarm should come on around 210 + degrees. My Perkins runs around 200 @ cruise, 1800 rpm by the gauge. Maybe a little less. if your running at 180 or so I'd be surprised if that's overheating. How much higher does the gauge go ??

The sender you wanted to know about. With the key on or power on touch the wire to the engine block. If the alarm sounds it's the alarm sender.

Might be time to find a pro and see whats normal for your engine.

Solly
The gauge goes up to 240. I owned the boat for two years now and it was always around 170-175 at cruising rpm around 1600. I had one occasion, when the alarm went off in the past, due to raptured sea water hose.

You can see the temp of the sender on the photos. Also, the block temp and the pipe, which goes into the coolant tank.
The manual does not say anything about having two senders. I donít know, if there is a separate sender for the water temp and another sender for the alarm? That does not make sense. I will try your recommendation next time I heat up the engine, to test the upper sender.

I do have a mechanic whom I hired before, but my situation is different now. I am not in a marina, but full-time on a buoy. The dock nearby is mostly full on the weekends, and I work all week. So, I try to fix everything myself, if I can. As a last resort, I will bring in someone to solve this issue.

I plan to clean the heat exchangers, as it was suggested earlier. In a way, it make sense to me that the overheating occurs, when there is load on the engine. Even though I have sea water flow coming out, it might not be enough to cool higher temperatures. This also explains the slow temp rise, while on idle and put in reverse, turning the prop.

I enjoy fixing things and I donít mind the dirty work. As long I have clear directions and proper parts, I am able to take care of problems. This boat needs a lot of things, so the money will go primarily towards those items.
If I am not confident, I will hire a mechanic. I plan to visit local shops and talk to them about the options.
This engine was originally built for industry, but ended up in a boat. Its serial number does not show up, so parts are not easy to find.
Thanks.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:27 AM   #28
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It does sound like the alarm fires at too low a temp, but the point is, something has changed, it is running hotter, that`s a concern you are rightly trying to run down. The sea water flow is not influenced by engine temp, though I suppose it is by rpm.
What happens if you disconnect the "second" sensor?
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:58 AM   #29
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It does sound like the alarm fires at too low a temp, but the point is, something has changed, it is running hotter, that`s a concern you are rightly trying to run down. The sea water flow is not influenced by engine temp, though I suppose it is by rpm.
What happens if you disconnect the "second" sensor?


I will not have time to test it, till the weekend. Work, work, work.

How would you test the alarm functionality? Again, the manual I have is impossible to follow. I tried.

Although, the alarm came on around 185, if I let it run more, the gauge would have gone higher really fast. At least, that what happened last year, when I had a sea water hose burst.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #30
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I'm leaning towards a bad temp sending unit on the alarm. There are 2 sensors/senders. 1 for the temp gauge and another for the overheating alarm. When it first happened this time there was a problem with the raw water pump and the alarm went off like it should. Now the pump is fixed/rebuilt and you have raw water flow. If the temp gauge doesn't climb to a pretty high temp with it running it's just the alarm sender is out of whack.

To verify the gauge check the water temp in the heat exchanger with the IR gun or a cooking thermometer. Take the fill cap off, let it run and warm up. Compare temps. They won't be the same but close. The exchanger water temp will probably be lower, that's what they do. That way you can trust the gauge and ignore the alarm for a bit. When you let it run testing see if the gauge goes over 210 degrees. If it does then you still have an engine problem.

I Googled a thermostat for a Cat 3306 and they were around 175 to 185 degrees so that's roughly what it should run at. See if you can find the temp rating of the one you put in. If the alarm is going off close to when the engine is at operating temp that's not right. Should be set a good bit higher.

The alarm sender is a simple on/off switch that's controlled by the temp of the water. When the water temp rises above it's trip point it closes and sounds the alarm. Sometimes they are combined with a low oil pressure sender too. When you start the engine the alarm will sound until the oil pressure builds up. No idea if what you have is stock or added later. With the engine running and you ground that sensor wire and the alarm sounds you will know that's the alarm sensor. No idea how to test the temp rating of the sensor or what your engine should use.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKa View Post
I will not have time to test it, till the weekend. Work, work, work.

How would you test the alarm functionality? Again, the manual I have is impossible to follow. I tried.

Although, the alarm came on around 185, if I let it run more, the gauge would have gone higher really fast. At least, that what happened last year, when I had a sea water hose burst.
If you can hear the alarm from the E.R, turn on the ignition and, without starting
the engine, ground the suspected temperature alarm wire to the block.
It should sound off if it is a simple normally open thermal switch.
I agree that 185 degrees is awfully cool for a temperature alarm to sound off.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:51 PM   #32
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Getting close...

Today I went to a diesel shop and talked to someone who knows these engines. They also sell parts, which I ordered.
You guys were correct. The device on the top is just a switch and it does what it suppose to do. Sets the alarm at certain temp. I still ordered a new one.
The problem has to be the heat exchanger. One of them. I have two.
The main suspect is the smaller one for the transmission. It is possible that both needs to be cleaned out, but certainly this one first. The reason is; the heat up occurs when the boat is in gear. When in neutral, there is only normal heat. I've tested it this morning. I started the engine and let it warm up to normal temp, which is around 165F in my case. I let it idle in neutral for about half an hour. The temp did not change. Later, I put it in reverse and let the prop turn at idle speed. In about 10 minutes, the temp started to go up. Very slowly, but it went up. It took about 25 minutes to reach 185F, when the alarm came on. I went to the ER and disconnected that switch. The alarm stopped. When I reconnected it, the alarm came on again.
The shop expert told me that it is how it suppose to be. That is the role of the switch. He recommended to start the cleaning with the Trans heat exchanger, since it heats up only when in gear. That is easier to access and remove, so I will do that soon. Regardless of the result, I am planning to clean the big one on the engine, too. That requires preparation. It is a messier job. Plus, I need gaskets. I really hope the smaller one is the real problem, but both needs to be cleaned. I'll keep you updated.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:55 PM   #33
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This weekend I took off the trans heat exchanger. I could not see any blockage. After assembly, I started the main and ran it in reverse. It slowly climbed up to 175F and stayed there. After 20 minutes, I put it in neutral and went up to cruising speed rpm, which is 1600. The outflow of raw water increased significantly, but the temp reached over 185F on the gauge, when the alarm came on.
I have measured the temp on the top of the engine, where the alarm switch is and it was between 205-210F.
Conclusion; the engine will warm up, regardless of being in neutral or in gear. Slowly, but it will.
My mechanic has suggested to me to use Rydlyme. He uses it and it works. It has to be circulated for few hours, or even sit inside the raw water circuit. It supposedly removes all the stuff. I will give it a try this weekend.
Anyone used Rydlyme before?
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:00 AM   #34
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Did you replace the alarm sender and any indication of the temp when it should go off ?? How hot does the temp gauge get when you let it run ? Does it get over 210 degrees ?
Time for some more troubleshooting. How about getting another temp gauge like this https://www.autozone.com/gauges-and-...uge/255992_0_0
Screw it in where the alarm sender goes and see what the actual water temp is.
You can't go by the temp of the metal block. The exhaust manifold could be 600 degrees but that doesn't mean it's over heating.
Still, cleaning the heat exchangers won't hurt but I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:19 AM   #35
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Did you replace the alarm sender and any indication of the temp when it should go off ?? How hot does the temp gauge get when you let it run ? Does it get over 210 degrees ?
Time for some more troubleshooting. How about getting another temp gauge like this https://www.autozone.com/gauges-and-...uge/255992_0_0
Screw it in where the alarm sender goes and see what the actual water temp is.
You can't go by the temp of the metal block. The exhaust manifold could be 600 degrees but that doesn't mean it's over heating.
Still, cleaning the heat exchangers won't hurt but I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.


Good advice, thank you. I will buy one and see what it shows.
Based on what the diesel parts guy told me, the alarm switch works as expected. It should trigger from 195F-210F. It does what it supposed to; I was told. I can still replace it, but letís see first the gauge you have recommended.
What I could see over the weekend was that the temp did not go higher then 210-212F at the alarm switch. Although, I was stationary and I did not run it for very long. Possibly less then an hour total.
I am afraid to go out and run it for an hour or two cruising. I donít want to be stuck out on the water with an overheated engine.
Letís see, if it improves after Rydlyme treatment?
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:02 AM   #36
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Still, cleaning the heat exchangers won't hurt but I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.

Here is an interesting list, what can cause overheating. If I had to pick; Iíd check the coolant mix, or the after cooler on my engine.
I know that I did not replace the coolant completely, after the new pump and thermostat was installed. Maybe I should have.
I also see burned sections at the exhaust, where it connects to the after cooler. Something there is not completely sealed, or broken. Taking it apart will be a serious job, because lot of things would need to be removed to access it.

https://www.4btengines.com/causes-of...e-overheating/
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:51 AM   #37
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[QUOTE=LeoKa;895830]
I know that I did not replace the coolant completely, after the new pump and thermostat was installed. Maybe I should have.


1) Inspect the Coolant Level:
The most obvious system to inspect upon discovering overheating issue is the coolant level. If the coolant is too low this can allow pockets of air into cooling system. When air gets into the cooling system it will cause a reduction of coolant flow due to the presence of air bubbles. Air flow alone isnít going to get the job done to keep engine temperatures constant. If you find coolant levels to be too low simply add more coolant to the engine.

This right here... Heat exchanger systems must be full of water. The volume of water is what helps cool the engine too. Plus you could have an airlock at the alarm sender, temp sender, head, and it's not getting cooled.

Fill the heat exchanger and leave the cap off. Run the engine. Some coolant may overflow the fill. When the engine warms up the thermostat will open and the coolant level in the HE will suddenly drop. Put more coolant in the HE. Do that until it stays full and there are no bubbles in the coolant in the HE. Then close the HE and put some in the overflow.

If you want you can use just water to test but it will need drained and filled with antifreeze-coolant. The mix will cool better than plain water.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:53 PM   #38
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[QUOTE=Solly;895995]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKa View Post

I know that I did not replace the coolant completely, after the new pump and thermostat was installed. Maybe I should have.





1) Inspect the Coolant Level:

The most obvious system to inspect upon discovering overheating

I did check the coolant level, before engine start. It looked high enough. I did not check while running it, so I will follow your suggestion.

Although, I have replaced the thermostat, I wonder, if it is working properly? It was new, but not OEM. I have an extra and I am debating, if I should replace it again?
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:02 PM   #39
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Today, I tried to build and use a flushing system, but did not work. My fitting was not adequate for high pressure and when I turned on the pump, it blew off the hoses at the transmission heat exchanger.
Does the flushing system has to be built for high water pressure? All I wanted to do is circulating the RydLyme mixture. I will build another one with stronger fitting, but it is difficult to find barb reducer from 1 5/8 to 3/4. My hose on the engine for raw water is 1 5/8 and the pump is 3/4.

Another thing I was not sure about is the direction. The online source, which the base of my flushing setup says that the flow of the flushing should come in backwards, from the outgoing hose. I wonder, if this is accurate and something is stopping the mix coming from the return?
In my present plumbing, I have connected the pump to the small heat exchanger (transmission), which is connected to the engineís HE. Maybe I need to connect only to the engineís HE and exclude the smaller one for the flush?
Or, I should just forget about the reverse flow and connect directly to the intake pipe and push the mix through that way?
All these dilemmas.......
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:22 AM   #40
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Are you trying to push your brew through the stationary impeller pump? Water will not flow through that (well not much) unless it is spinning.
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