Modified Cutwater question

[Stardogchampion]

Hi,
I am considering looking at a Cutwater 24. It seems that the Cutwater 28 models normally are powered with the 260 hp Volvo diesel inboard. And normally the Cutwater 24 models have a gas outboard. However I found a Cutwater 24 with a 220 hp Volvo inboard diesel. The broker says that the previous owner had this special built.
My question is this: if I get this boat do you think I run a risk of having issues since this particular engine was not "normally" used with the 24? All the 24s I have seen have a gas outboard. I like the boat but am just a bit cautious since this boat was a special order. To me it is like if I was buying a Toyota Corrolla and had a factory install of a Cummins Diesel in the frame of the car....i.e. it would cause the vehicle to handle in a different manner and possibly cause interference with other componets in the vehicle. Is this a fair analogy?

Thanks!

 

[O C Diver]

I would get the model of the engine and transmission to see how common they are in other boats. If they're common, I would be less concerned.

I would be more concerned about drivetrain weight. I'm guessing that weight is hugely more than a 250 HP outboard. That boat might not have the performance compared to the outboard. A 24' boat is small to have a lot of excess weight in.

Ted

 

[Martin610]

Cutwater (Fluid Motion) normally provides a five year warranty with their boats. I think it is transferable. I would drop a line to the Fluid Motion management and determine if the boat is covered by the factory. You should be able to find contact information at the TugNuts web site.

 

[Comodave]

I would take the outboard version any day over the Volvo. Personally I will not own a Volvo, been there done that. Search the site for opinions on them.

 

[koliver]

I would take the outboard version any day over the Volvo. Personally I will not own a Volvo, ben there done that. Search the site for opinions on them.

Dave, Dave, Dave

OP:
If the engine was a factory installation, as is stated, The manufacturer has to have made allowances for its characteristics. The loading of a lightweight boat such as Cutwater, is of primary importance to that builder, as they want every boat to perform well, to achieve its cruising speed with the installed power, and to encourage the public to buy more of their boats.

There will be a spec sheet on the boat that will give you the basics, lie weight, cruising speed, speed at WOT, etc. You should also call the manufacturer and ask them for spec sheets on the outboard powered 24s, so that you can do a proper comparison.

Speaking personally, I would buy a diesel powered Cutwater of any size, ahead of the outboard powered boat of the same size.
The diesels put into locally made (Washington State in this case?) boats are all of exceptional quality and will serve you well.

 

[koliver]

Hi,
To me it is like if I was buying a Toyota Corrolla and had a factory install of a Cummins Diesel in the frame of the car....i.e. it would cause the vehicle to handle in a different manner and possibly cause interference with other componets in the vehicle. Is this a fair analogy?

Thanks!

Just thinking about your analogy.
Today I was walking along the road by the beach and was passed by an Alpine Tiger. There is your Toyota with a Cummins.
A ford V8 (265 cuin) shoehorned into an ER designed for a 1500cc 4 banger. Yes, it handled differenty, Very differently. But it was done by Carrol Shelby, so what was not to like.

 

[Stardogchampion]

Really appreciate the input. I will contact the manufacturer and I also like the idea of getting a spec sheet on the outboard 24 for comparison.
Regarding the Volvo diesel, what was the particular issue(s) you had?
Thanks

 

[Comodave]

The issue I had with Volvos was parts and support. This is a common complaint about Volvo, not just mine. You will find lots of people that are very happy with Volvo, but Volvo has a problem supporting their product. Sometimes months waiting for parts, to say nothing of the cost of the parts when you get them. Search the forum and see what others think of Volvo support.

 

[sunchaser]

Just thinking about your analogy.
Today I was walking along the road by the beach and was passed by an Alpine Tiger. There is your Toyota with a Cummins.
A ford V8 (265 cuin) shoehorned into an ER designed for a 1500cc 4 banger. Yes, it handled differenty, Very differently. But it was done by Carrol Shelby, so what was not to like.

I bought a Sunbeam Tiger new in 1967. It performed beautifully, known as the poor man's Cobra. They are still club racing those cars today.

 

[Stardogchampion]

Thanks for the info Comodave. I do see that you are not alone in your feelings regarding the Volvo.

 

[OldDan1943]

Consider running the Volvo until it is too expensive to maintain then find a rebuilt or naturally aspirated engine and re-power it.
My N46 had a John Deere with about 120 hp. It moved along at 8 knots.
260 hp in a 26 or 28 ft boat ... "ramming speed".
Per outboards, in general, these days, they are VERY quiet.
Per gasoline driven, IM feeble opinion, just not for me.
Outboards are easer to replace.

 

[Martin610]

I have the D4-260. It's been reliable. On the occasion when I did need a part there was no issue getting it.

 

[Mischief Managed]

The issue I had with Volvos was parts and support. This is a common complaint about Volvo, not just mine. You will find lots of people that are very happy with Volvo, but Volvo has a problem supporting their product. Sometimes months waiting for parts, to say nothing of the cost of the parts when you get them. Search the forum and see what others think of Volvo support.

A friend of mine has a heavily-used recreational fishing boat that is powered by twin VP inboard diesels. He ended up buying a complete pair of used engines to keep on hand for spare parts due to the typical slow delivery of new parts. When he needs a part, he orders a new one and uses the part from one of his spare engines until the new part arrives, often months later. FWIW, he loves the engines, just hates the spare parts cost and support.

 

[koliver]

I bought a Sunbeam Tiger new in 1967. It performed beautifully, known as the poor man's Cobra. They are still club racing those cars today.

Tom
Another area where we can have an in depth conversation. I had a Sunbeam Rapier convertible (nowhere near new) in 1967. I know, no comparison, but it got me some knowledge of the Tiger at the time.
How is your new car search coming?

 

[sunchaser]

Tom
Another area where we can have an in depth conversation. I had a Sunbeam Rapier convertible (nowhere near new) in 1967. I know, no comparison, but it got me some knowledge of the Tiger at the time.
How is your new car search coming?

Chip shortages make for a tough search. So I'm taking a time out for awhile. Fortunately, nearby friends have very exotic stuff I can use whenever the lust gets too high.

 

[OldDan1943]

Chip shortage, chip shortage,
Here is your bag of chip so shhhhh

 

[Coppercove1]

We just refurbished the water, oil and turbo coolers on one of our 1985 Volvo-Penta TAMD 4D 165hp diesels in our new to us trawler. No trouble getting parts, seems like good support for Volvo’s in the Vancouver BC area.

 

[quinsky]

I had a C-28 with the Volvo diesel. No issues with the performance of the engine but it was a B#$%* to work on due to the tight space. I can only imagine how tight the space around the engine is on that C24. The outboard would be much easier to access.

I would be concerned with the performance of the boat since it was designed for a heavy outboard on the stern. Moving that weight forward could make for significant changes in handling properties, i.e. getting up on plane. Be sure to ask the factory folks about that.

Finally I would compare it to the stock C24 it terms of the storage space sacrificed for the inboard.

Just my two cents.

 

[AlaskaProf]

..was passed by an Alpine Tiger. There is your Toyota with a Cummins.
A ford V8 (265 cuin) shoehorned into an ER designed for a 1500cc 4 banger. Yes, it handled differenty, Very differently. But it was done by Carrol Shelby, so what was not to like.

A very shaky analogy. I speak from experience; having owned a Sunbeam (not Alpine) Tiger with the 260" (not 265) Ford. As you noted, it drove like an ox-cart, with an extra 300# resting squarely on the front axle. Maint. was a nightmare; four back sparkplugs were in the cockpit! and many procedures required removal of the engine.


Having said that, I adored the thing, mostly for the ego-stoking double-takes it generated at the stop sign, and will buy another with my Powerball winnings.



But probably doesn't prove your point about the Cutwater 24'.

 

[AlaskaProf]

P.S.:
Carrol Shelby employed full-time mechanics.

 

[Lepke]

The factory install of a diesel inboard is much better than any outboard. If the engine just hadn't been a Volvo...

 

[Comodave]

The factory install of a diesel inboard is much better than any outboard. If the engine just hadn't been a Volvo...

+1.

 

[AlaskaProf]

The factory install of a diesel inboard is much better than any outboard. If the engine just hadn't been a Volvo...

Lepke,


I just figured out where I'd seen you before:

 

[Comodave]

Lepke,


I just figured out where I'd seen you before:

Good call.

 

[Nomad Willy]

One has brought up the weight of engines mostly as to the OB way far aft and the inbd. amidships. Much could be done by moving heavy items aft in the inb’d .. But only so much.
Fortunately the increased weight will be going in the best place for it .. probably.

The overall weight difference is an elephant I suspect. The area of the footprint of the hull and the overall weight that needs support should be given adequate attention. The manufacturer should have/probably did give significant attention to this … but it costs money and the money was probably coming from one boat.

Planing boats 24’ and less are perfect for modern outboards.
How much hull re-enforcements were made to accommodate the inb'd diesel?
Being a short propulsion shaft for the power the angle may be high.
The room used for the engine displaced space in the boat that may be important to the OP.
Interior noise will probably be high for the inb’d as well.
I hope this boat does not have a clipper bow as that would shorten the WLL. Not good.

I’d go buy an outboard.

 

[Crankyank]

If it is a 220 hp Volvo, it might be a D3, which is a 2.4L all aluminum 4 cylinder, which might be even lighter than the outboard. Probably not enough difference between the two to worry about it.

 

[Sweet marie]

I just got done pulling out a Volvo Penta 225 diesel from my 29’ trailerable trawler and replaced it with a 4 stroke outboard. I personally will never go back to an inboard again on a smaller boat. Maintenance access on my boat was an issue, and on the VP diesels the cost for routine service parts is astronomical. I will never look back on my repower. The new 4 strokes are whisper quiet, my fuel consumption is only slightly higher, and best of all maintenance is a breeze. Just my $.02.

 

[thataway]

The earlier Cutwater boats were offered in both gas I/O and diesel 1/0. Not sure how much "custom" the owner had done. But the Diesel was one of the options a few years back.

I would not worry about the diesel. I have owed several Volvo diesels. If you take good care of them, they are fine. Modern engine parts are fairly easy to get, but often are more expensive than for example a Cumins.

See if you can find some of the earlier brochures on the Cutwater-or descriptions on Tug Nuts. The outboard are fairly recent on both the Cutwater and Ranger "Tugs".

 

[OldDan1943]

Outboards have come a long way since the Neptune. Neighbor had one, after an hour or two, he had to shut down and tighten all the nuts and bolts and very noisy.

 

[Nomad Willy]

If it is a 220 hp Volvo, it might be a D3, which is a 2.4L all aluminum 4 cylinder, which might be even lighter than the outboard. Probably not enough difference between the two to worry about it.

Had no idea. Must be very noisy.

But the weight situation may then be favorable.
And a fuel tank location swap (outboard to inboard) may even deliver reasonable balance.
Has anybody seen the location of auxiliary items and their location in the hull?