Milky Oil

[RossWilson]

Bingo! No antifreeze pretty much eliminates a catastrophic engine issue. Clean it out. Replace the seal on the raw water pump. And monitor the situation next year.

That's good to hear. However, the oil report included the following:

We advise that you check for the source of water entry. Check seals and/or filters for points of contaminant entry. We recommend that you drain the oil from the component if this has not already been done. We advise that you follow the water drain-off procedure for this component. We recommend an early resample to monitor this condition. Please specify the brand, type, and viscosity of the oil on your next sample. Iron ppm levels are abnormal. Cylinder, crank or cam shaft wear is indicated.

Now what? :-(

 

[sunchaser]

Surprisingly little water is needed to discolor oil. Water sitting on a shut down piston can eventually migrate downwards and foul oil.

All said, pickling the engine as best possible until a full and hopefully prolonged run up can be done is recommended. Once fully operational the ultimate point of water ingress can be determined.

 

[OldDan1943]

A. drain the muffler.
B. change the oil and filter a couple of times, running the engine for a bit of time under load.

Based on my shabby memory, I think, if the main or generator does not stop by the 3 try, drain the muffler before trying again.

 

[Cigatoo]

That's good to hear. However, the oil report included the following:

We advise that you check for the source of water entry. Check seals and/or filters for points of contaminant entry. We recommend that you drain the oil from the component if this has not already been done. We advise that you follow the water drain-off procedure for this component. We recommend an early resample to monitor this condition. Please specify the brand, type, and viscosity of the oil on your next sample. Iron ppm levels are abnormal. Cylinder, crank or cam shaft wear is indicated.

Now what? :-(

You are overthinking this. Get the old oil out before winter. Monitor it in the spring when you can run the generator as you normally would.

 

[Bacchus]

Actually, RTF, the mechanic did replace the oil and filter same day as we discovered the cafe oil. And the service manager recommended having the oil tested (at a cost of $99), which I thence ordered. I just don't recall if he started the genny immediately afterward. Maybe he did, but it didn't run for very long.

Ross,
That price for an oil sample seems like its high on mark-up!

I've been very pleased with the service and reports from JG Lubrication Services
The Pres is actually a TF member (hzjcm8) but not a frequent poster. I have used him for boat and motorhome oil analysis and He has been responsive to my info requests. For $100+ you can get a 3 pack of samples and the vacuum pump for pulling samples. (with some labs you pay when sending in the sample where with JGL you buy the sample bottles and the analysis and there is no additional charge when you send the sample in. You will get a report emailed in about a week and they keep a log of tests so you can see any trends.
Happy to share some typical reports - just PM me if interested.

 

[RossWilson]

You are overthinking this. Get the old oil out before winter. Monitor it in the spring when you can run the generator as you normally would.

So, I shouldn't be concerned about the abnormal iron content of the oil sample per the last line of the recommendations? I know the oil was replaced once. Unsure about twice since I wasn't present after the first phase of the job.


I've asked the service manager if the oil was checked again for colour and awaiting his reply. Maybe I'm working myself up too much?

 

[RossWilson]

Ross,
That price for an oil sample seems like its high on mark-up!

I've been very pleased with the service and reports from JG Lubrication Services
The Pres is actually a TF member (hzjcm8) but not a frequent poster. I have used him for boat and motorhome oil analysis and He has been responsive to my info requests. For $100+ you can get a 3 pack of samples and the vacuum pump for pulling samples. (with some labs you pay when sending in the sample where with JGL you buy the sample bottles and the analysis and there is no additional charge when you send the sample in. You will get a report emailed in about a week and they keep a log of tests so you can see any trends.
Happy to share some typical reports - just PM me if interested.

That's $99 Cdn, so about $75 Usd. Regardless, I knew the marina marks it up a bunch. Is your preferred tester in the US and Canada?

 

[Bacchus]

That's $99 Cdn, so about $75 Usd. Regardless, I knew the marina marks it up a bunch. Is your preferred tester in the US and Canada?

Good point - forgot about the conversion.
JGL has 3 labs all in the US. You might get on their website and call or email to see whether there are any issues w/ international samples. Just guessing but a little more postage $ should get a sample to them maybe w/ a longer transit time is all???

 

[Lou_tribal]

I got a similar issue on my engine last year, it took me 5 oil changes before getting oil back to normal.
Also I would not run the engine during an hour or two if the oil is not clean.

Between each oil change I ran the engine 5 or 10 minutes checked oil and if not clean changed again oil.
When I got the oil clear I did a 2h or 3h run to get oil hot enough to evaporate the remaining trace of water. I was able to see some vapor coming out of the dipstick so even if oil looked clean some moisture was still there.

I did a final oil change and everything has been fine since.

L

 

[boatpoker]

You don't have a mechanic. You have an oil change guy.
Consider the implications.

 

[RossWilson]

Good point - forgot about the conversion.
JGL has 3 labs all in the US. You might get on their website and call or email to see whether there are any issues w/ international samples. Just guessing but a little more postage $ should get a sample to them maybe w/ a longer transit time is all???

Thanks, Don. Probably best to find a local tester, and deal direct with them instead of through a marina.

 

[RossWilson]

I got a similar issue on my engine last year, it took me 5 oil changes before getting oil back to normal.
Also I would not run the engine during an hour or two if the oil is not clean.

Between each oil change I ran the engine 5 or 10 minutes checked oil and if not clean changed again oil.
When I got the oil clear I did a 2h or 3h run to get oil hot enough to evaporate the remaining trace of water. I was able to see some vapor coming out of the dipstick so even if oil looked clean some moisture was still there.

I did a final oil change and everything has been fine since.

L

Thanks, Lou. Sounds like good advice. My issue, however, is that my boat is now in storage. Thus, changing the oil and filter, and running it several times is a little more complicated.

 

[RossWilson]

You don't have a mechanic. You have an oil change guy.
Consider the implications.

Good point. But he claimed to be a "marine technician" who seemed to know a lot about diesel engines, at least more than me.

 

[Cigatoo]

So, I shouldn't be concerned about the abnormal iron content of the oil sample per the last line of the recommendations? I know the oil was replaced once. Unsure about twice since I wasn't present after the first phase of the job.


I've asked the service manager if the oil was checked again for colour and awaiting his reply. Maybe I'm working myself up too much?

One oil sample really doesn’t mean much. It’s the trend over several samples that tells a story. If the $99.00 for the oil sample included the techs time to go and draw the sample it’s not such a bad deal. Probably about 1/2 hour of his time (labor) included.
As I said before get the contaminated oil out and new oil in for the winter. Run the generator next spring and monitor the situation.

 

[boatpoker]

Any NAPA store in Ontario will sell you an oil analysis kit for about $40. This includes the report.
Should you want to learn a liitle bit about these reports and what information they provide may I offer .......

Oil_Analysis_on_Diesel_Boats

 

[OldDan1943]

A question. How many hours did the generator run on the oil that was removed?

 

[Lou_tribal]

Thanks, Lou. Sounds like good advice. My issue, however, is that my boat is now in storage. Thus, changing the oil and filter, and running it several times is a little more complicated.

Looking at the current weather now up here I do not see anything that prevent you to go to your boat for a day to change your oil a couple of times and run the genset a few times. Can't you get a water hose to your boat? Event if your batteries are disconnected you can connect your starting battery in 5 minutes. At least after doing this you would get peace of mind for winter. Better to do that instead of thinking about this for the 6 months...

L

 

[boatpoker]

Any NAPA store in Ontario will sell you an oil analysis kit for about $40. This includes the report.
Should you want to learn a liitle bit about these reports and what information they provide may I offer .......

Oil_Analysis_on_Diesel_Boats

The sample report in the above linked article is from just down the street from you in Burlington.

Wear Check
1175 Appleby Line, Burlington, ON L7L 5H9
(905) 569-8600

 

[RossWilson]

One oil sample really doesn’t mean much. It’s the trend over several samples that tells a story. If the $99.00 for the oil sample included the techs time to go and draw the sample it’s not such a bad deal. Probably about 1/2 hour of his time (labor) included.
As I said before get the contaminated oil out and new oil in for the winter. Run the generator next spring and monitor the situation.

The $99 did include the tech's time to take the sample. Thanks for sharing.

 

[RossWilson]

Any NAPA store in Ontario will sell you an oil analysis kit for about $40. This includes the report.
Should you want to learn a liitle bit about these reports and what information they provide may I offer .......

Oil_Analysis_on_Diesel_Boats

Thanks BoatPoker. Very informative read.

 

[RossWilson]

A question. How many hours did the generator run on the oil that was removed?

The oil had been changed in the spring of 2019 by the previous owner's marina, and I took possession of the boat early June after launch. The surveyor ran the generator for a few minutes, and I ran it for maybe an hour. My wife preferred to tie up somewhere rather than anchor, so it wasn't used much.

 

[RossWilson]

Looking at the current weather now up here I do not see anything that prevent you to go to your boat for a day to change your oil a couple of times and run the genset a few times. Can't you get a water hose to your boat? Event if your batteries are disconnected you can connect your starting battery in 5 minutes. At least after doing this you would get peace of mind for winter. Better to do that instead of thinking about this for the 6 months...

L

Good point, Lou. The boat is in the back corner of a very large storage building. I don't know if the marina could or would permit me to run a water hose to my boat, or even to start the generator. Nevertheless, I'll inquire. I would indeed rest easier when the snow flies.

 

[RossWilson]

The sample report in the above linked article is from just down the street from you in Burlington.

Wear Check
1175 Appleby Line, Burlington, ON L7L 5H9
(905) 569-8600

Now, that's handy. I've got some reading to do today. Thanks again.

 

[sunchaser]

The oil had been changed in the spring of 2019 by the previous owner's marina, and I took possession of the boat early June after launch. The surveyor ran the generator for a few minutes, and I ran it for maybe an hour. My wife preferred to tie up somewhere rather than anchor, so it wasn't used much.

Possibly the new to you vessel had a raw water into genset leak (from who knows where) right from the start. The mechanic who changed the oil in the fall noticed the milkiness and brought it to your attention. Maybe the latest mechanic has been overly roasted?

 

[RossWilson]

Possibly the new to you vessel had a raw water into genset leak (from who knows where) right from the start. The mechanic who changed the oil in the fall noticed the milkiness and brought it to your attention. Maybe the latest mechanic has been overly roasted?

That's a distinct possibility - on both counts. It may have had a leak already and the surveyor wasn't able to detect it. The investigation and remedial actions continue. Thanks.

 

[T210DRVR]

So, I shouldn't be concerned about the abnormal iron content of the oil sample per the last line of the recommendations? I know the oil was replaced once. Unsure about twice since I wasn't present after the first phase of the job.


I've asked the service manager if the oil was checked again for colour and awaiting his reply. Maybe I'm working myself up too much?

Oil analysis is generally a long term view of engine health. It takes a number of samples to determine what is “normal” for your engine. If you got a slug of water in there the high iron could be from some corrosion that may have taken place. Anyway, one high iron reading isn’t very concerning to me. All the other advice offered seems very spot on.

 

[STB]

Greetings,
Start looking for another mechanic as well. Milky oil always means water/antifreeze in the oil. That's a no-brainer. Oil analysis? Waste of $$, at this point IMO. Water is water and I know no other cause of milky oil. He should have drained and changed the oil immediately.

I'm going to respectfully disagree slightly here. In this situation, I'd be interested to know if Na (Sodium) was also elevated.

It is most likely that coolant is the cause of the milky oil. But there are avenues for it to be saltwater. For the $20 that and almost no time that an oil analysis costs, I'd want to cross those definitively off the list.

But, I agree, I'd have gotten that milky oil out of there right away. I'd take that oil sample as I was draining it out! (Before refiling it and turning over a bunch, and repeating.)

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. gk. "But there are avenues for it to be saltwater." OP is in fresh water. (Oakville, Ontario, Canada. Boating waters are most probably Lake Ontario) so no elevated Na levels.

 

[RossWilson]

I'm going to respectfully disagree slightly here. In this situation, I'd be interested to know if Na (Sodium) was also elevated.

It is most likely that coolant is the cause of the milky oil. But there are avenues for it to be saltwater. For the $20 that and almost no time that an oil analysis costs, I'd want to cross those definitively off the list.

But, I agree, I'd have gotten that milky oil out of there right away. I'd take that oil sample as I was draining it out! (Before refiling it and turning over a bunch, and repeating.)

I'd say that it's difficult for there to be salt water when she's always been a fresh-water vessel. The sodium was 50 pp and glycol zero. Based on the consensus of opinion here, I'd have to say it's water.

 

[MacPhid]

I'd say that it's difficult for there to be salt water when she's always been a fresh-water vessel. The sodium was 50 pp and glycol zero. Based on the consensus of opinion here, I'd have to say it's water.

Ross,

I’ve been boating (and winterizing) on Georgian Bay for a number of years. Once our boat is hauled, I run the generator with a winterization kit connected and fed into the raw water strainer.

https://www.amazon.ca/Camco-65501-Yourself-Boat-Winterizer/dp/B0000AXQU2

I fill the 20 ltr jug with pink RV antifreeze and the start the engine. Open the boiler valve on the jug and it’s fed through the raw water circuit. It will run for 2 or 3 minutes on 20 ltrs.
This would allow you to run the engine without the need for a water supply in the storage facility. You could then change the oil and filter one more time for peace of mind over the winter. If the yard won’t allow you to run it yourself, get them to do it.
I winterize both my main engines and the generator this way every year. Not ideal for oil change as the generator doesn’t get hot, but at least you’ll have the peace of mind knowing there is a second change with fresh oil in it for the winter.

James