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Old 05-09-2020, 07:48 PM   #21
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They are a very good idea. Fuel that doesn't go bad. No water possible in the fuel tank. In a pinch, you can use the same tank to run your gas grill. Tohatsu makes a 5 HP version. Don't know what the quality is or whether they will expand the line.

https://www.tohatsu.com/marine/int/o...s5c-lpg_1.html

Ted

I've asked around to anyone who would listen, especially people I see with Tohatsu engines, about my issue.


ALL the Tohatsu owners I have run into, love theirs!
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Old 05-10-2020, 12:50 AM   #22
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Would drilling a whole in the cowl, allowing for easy pin access to release the propane, have enough ventilation?


Maybe a little hinged door on the side?
Sorry, I have not done that so cannot say, only passing on what I have read. Speaking of which, I have tried to find links that were readily available a few months ago, cannot. If purging works then live with doing that, if not see if you can get the carb rebuilt or just change the diaphragm.
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Old 05-10-2020, 03:35 AM   #23
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Having to purge the line after the engine has sat for a while or after the hose is disconnected from the tank is normal. Air gets into the system. Once the engine has started you should be able to stop it and restart it all day long.

It should run fine on either a gas feed tank or liquid feed tank. It has a vaporizer in the system. In fact on a really cold day a gas feed tank might not supply enough propane to give you full power from the engine. I run my 15 on a forklift liquid feed tank.

The starter sounds weak. Have you tested the voltage at the starter? I’m thinking voltage drop between the battery and the starter. That one uses an external battery doesn’t it? You could get them with a small battery under the engine cover.

What happens when you hand crank it?

I think I have a pdf of the service manual. If you will PM your email to me I’ll try to send it to you. Probably not much help without parts being available.
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:27 AM   #24
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Definitely not enough volts to the starter. Get that sorted first.
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:55 AM   #25
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Having to purge the line after the engine has sat for a while or after the hose is disconnected from the tank is normal. Air gets into the system. Once the engine has started you should be able to stop it and restart it all day long.

It should run fine on either a gas feed tank or liquid feed tank. It has a vaporizer in the system. In fact on a really cold day a gas feed tank might not supply enough propane to give you full power from the engine. I run my 15 on a forklift liquid feed tank.

The starter sounds weak. Have you tested the voltage at the starter? I’m thinking voltage drop between the battery and the starter. That one uses an external battery doesn’t it? You could get them with a small battery under the engine cover.

What happens when you hand crank it?

I think I have a pdf of the service manual. If you will PM your email to me I’ll try to send it to you. Probably not much help without parts being available.

I have both the PDF and original paper manual I got with the engine. My version of the engine has an external battery, with no alternator. I run a solar panel, and controller, so it has enough voltage.



(A later version of the Lehr had an alternator, and small starter battery inside the cowl.)


If I purge the propane in my start procedure and turn the key, it will start 10 times in a row.


https://imgur.com/a/Jc5nOiZ


"Purge, Turn Key, Starts like in the second video."



"No Purge, Turn Key, Won't start, like in the first video."



"Purge, Turn Key, Start like in the second video."



I can go back and forth purge, no purge, and the results are consistent. The battery will start only after a purge. I have spent over half an hour going back and forth, because I've tried every shut down procedure I could think of, and tried to start it with out bleeding it.



It doesn't start, then I bleed it, start it, and try a new shut down procedure.



Bleeding it is the only thing that works!
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Old 05-10-2020, 12:03 PM   #26
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Definitely not enough volts to the starter. Get that sorted first.

I have enough volts to the starter. It always starts after a purge.



Ten out of ten, starts after a purge. I'd like to get a fix that doesn't require removing the cowl, inserting a pin into the plate here like MurryM illustrated


https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...83&postcount=1


releasing the pressure, and then turning the key.
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Old 05-10-2020, 03:53 PM   #27
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Alleycat the manual I offered to send you is the service manual and parts list that mechanics use. It is not the owner’s manual.

I knew Bernardo the owner of Lehr. I had suggested they add an external purge button but they never did. Bernardo was obsessed with making larger and larger engines. He should have stopped after the five hp and concentrated on quality control. The 15 was as big as he should have gone. He spent a lot of time and money developing a 25 that would have needed a huge tank. I don’t think there was a market for the 25, even the 15 was pushing it. He should have also made the five and ten hp with a 25” shaft for sailboat auxiliary.
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Old 05-10-2020, 04:00 PM   #28
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I don’t think you are lowering the pressure when you push the purge button. You are letting propane flow through the system and push air out. The question is why is air getting into the system?
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Old 05-10-2020, 05:59 PM   #29
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Check the voltage at the starter while it is actually cranking. Also at the battery while cranking.

Slow cranking indicates either a battery problem or a dirty contact problem in the circuit which creates a Vdrop under load.
That could mean the ingnition system is not developing its proper voltage so the spark is either non-existant or too weak for a quick fire up..
I don't think your Lehr ignition is battery powered but if the spin while cranking is too slow the flywheel mag. may not generate a strong spark.

Don't assume just because you have a solar panel that the battery or the wire connections are ok and the power is getting to the starter.
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Old 05-10-2020, 06:33 PM   #30
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Alleycat the manual I offered to send you is the service manual and parts list that mechanics use. It is not the owner’s manual.

I knew Bernardo the owner of Lehr. I had suggested they add an external purge button but they never did. Bernardo was obsessed with making larger and larger engines. He should have stopped after the five hp and concentrated on quality control. The 15 was as big as he should have gone. He spent a lot of time and money developing a 25 that would have needed a huge tank. I don’t think there was a market for the 25, even the 15 was pushing it. He should have also made the five and ten hp with a 25” shaft for sailboat auxiliary.

I sent you my E-mail in a private note. The service manual would illuminate a lot of things I don't have a good understanding of!



My model is the long shaft, and I agree with you, the 5 and 9.9 should have been used to get the technology right.


I think Bernardo has become a joke. He still list on his linked in page that he's currently the CEO of Lehr. He should put a notice on golehr.com that they are no longer supporting products, not leave customers wondering!
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Old 05-10-2020, 06:39 PM   #31
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I don’t think you are lowering the pressure when you push the purge button. You are letting propane flow through the system and push air out. The question is why is air getting into the system?



Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way.



You previously asked what happened with using the manual pull cord. When the engine has been running, and I turn it off with the key, it is VERY hard to pull out, the first pull. You can only do it slowly, and it moves out about 12 inches at a time.



The second pull, is still hard, but you can pull it steady.


On the third or fourth pull, it will have released enough (of what I'm describing as pressure) pressure for you to pull start the engine.
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Old 05-10-2020, 06:42 PM   #32
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Check the voltage at the starter while it is actually cranking. Also at the battery while cranking.

Slow cranking indicates either a battery problem or a dirty contact problem in the circuit which creates a Vdrop under load.
That could mean the ingnition system is not developing its proper voltage so the spark is either non existant or too weak for a quick fire up..

Don't assume just because you have a solar panel that the battery or the wire connections are ok and the power is getting to the starter.

I suppose it can't hurt to try. When I get the service manual, I'll check it, but the other symptoms don't lead to it being the battery, if you're familiar with the engine and propane.
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:17 PM   #33
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I added/edited:
I doubt the ign system is battery powered but if the cranking is too slow the Mag may not develop a strong spark.

That's also what I am getting at. The battery maybe be absolutely fine but any dirty, corroded or loose connections including the battery posts can cause trouble to cause the starter to not get the power it needs for a fast enough spin.

I may be all wet but considering how many times people miss stuff like that I push it to check and be sure.

I do expect that your problem is the fuel supply but just be sure.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:29 PM   #34
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I junked my 9.9 Lehr

Three weeks ago I put my Lehr 9.9 electric start outboard motor in a junk pile at the dealer (Tradewind Inflatables in Santa Ana, California) where I bought a new Tohatsu 5 hp propane outboard. I was done with it not being dependable. Lehr is out of business (?). Cannot get them on the phone or order parts. No one will work on it. I accepted that I lost the war. Time to move on. Tohatsu makes all the Mercury small horsepower motors, including the 5 hp propane.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:41 PM   #35
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I junked my 9.9 Lehr

Three weeks ago I trashed my Lehr 9.9 with a Tohatsu 5 hp propane outboard which works great. Tohatsu also makes all the Mercury outboards including the 5 hp propane.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:33 PM   #36
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I keep thinking about the starter. It sounds slow. If it was spinning faster the engine could pump propane through the system and flush out the air without you needing to purge it.

By the way, you do have an alternator. It provides power to spark the plugs and charge the battery. Keep in mind that it takes more energy to turn over a propane engine than a gasoline engine. Propane engines run at a higher compression ratio than gasoline because their octane rating is about 110.

Even if you do get it to spin faster, I think you have a leak in the system.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:40 PM   #37
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I can no longer find posts I tripped over before about the slow spin start.
IIRC, it almost seems as if there is a decompression valve in those tied together with stopping propane when engine stops. Best I can recall.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:49 PM   #38
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I can no longer find posts I tripped over before about the slow spin start.
IIRC, it almost seems as if there is a decompression valve in those tied together with stopping propane when engine stops. Best I can recall.
I think you’re right about the decompression valve. I had forgotten about that. It lets you get some speed before you come up against compression. It closes the first time a piston goes past top dead center. Without it they would be a bitch to pull over. You want the flywheel spinning pretty fast before that second piston comes up against compression.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:37 PM   #39
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Here in the Adirondacks lots of people have propane fueled standby generators. Surprised to hear you are able to start a propane engine with a pull cord. Everyone says a mere mortal can't possibly spin the engine fast enough to develop the vacuum needed to work a propane carburetor. The reason people use propane is as OC Diver said fuel never goes bad and can't get water contamination. I will have to see if there is a way to start a propane generator by hand, if I can even find one with a pull cord. 2 ways are better than one.
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Old 05-16-2020, 07:16 AM   #40
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I had one of the early 5HP models. Purchased it because it always started; until it did not. On top of the starting problem things just rusted to nothing. As stated, no one wanted to work on it. Basically, a good idea but porely excuted. I finally dumped it and got a Suzuki, 6HP, 4 stroke. Only weighs 52 pounds and so far, always starts on the second pull.
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