Kohler 8E0Z Genset Remote Panel Option?

[jefndeb]

Hello,

Our new to us 2006 Mainship 400 has an 8K Kohler genset that has 700 hrs.

There is only a start/stop switch on the Main CB panel. This boggles my mind..although I have no current issues with this unit, I need to due my diligence and monitor & maintain the unit.

I cannot understand why there are no remote Water Temp or Oil Pressure indicator anywhere...

Like ANY engine, you need to have information available to ensure the unit is running proper.

I read in the service manual that Kohler offered 3 types of remote panels, a simple remote start panel, a remote start with 2 indicators and another with 3 indicators. (water temp, Oil Press and voltage )

However I am unable to locate any information on how to obtain one.

I called Kohler and they basically said dont bother us, call one of our dealers....

Can someone maybe shed some light here?..Am I supposed to build one from the schematic...LOL

Thanks in advance

 

[STB]

Look in the parts manual vs the service manual:
-- https://www.atlantismarine.co.uk/Images/User//File/TP5616.PDF

...see page 68:

Panel and Meter Kits

Remote Start Panel Kit PA-250797
1 Decal, warning 249494
1 Installation Instructions TT-642
1 Panel assembly, remote A-250795
(includes the following)
1 Connector, plug 241617
1 Panel, remote 250796
1 Switch, rocker 269296


Remote Start and 4-Meter Panel PAA-267414
1 Screw, RHM, 8-32 x 3/4 X-51-11
1 Installation Instructions TT-688
1 Decal, warning 249494
1 Panel assembly, control A-267414
(includes the following)
1 Switch, rocker 249330
1 Harness, wiring 249467
1 Panel 249419
1 Gauge, oil pressure 249438
1 Gauge, water temperature 249440
1 Meter, hour 249461
1 Voltmeter, battery 249462


Remote Start and 2-Meter Panel PAA-267415
1 Installation Instructions TT-687
1 Screw, RHM, 8-32 x 3/4 X-51-11
1 Decal, warning 249494
1 Panel assembly, control A-267415
(includes the following)
1 Switch, rocker 249330
1 Harness, wiring 249331
1 Panel 249332
1 Gauge, oil pressure 249438
1 Gauge, water temperature 249440


Remote Start and 2-Meter Panel PA-344040
1 Installation Instructions TT-1072
1 Decal, warning 249494
1 Panel assembly, control A-344033
(includes the following)
1 Switch, rocker 344039
1 Harness, wiring 344031
1 Panel 344029
1 Gauge, oil pressure 344036
1 Gauge, water temperature 344035


Panel, Remote Start and 4 Meter (12 V) PA-344041
1 Instructions, installation TT-1073
1 Decal, warning 249494
1 Panel Assembly (includes the following) A-344034
1 Panel 344030
1 Harness, wiring 344032
1 Gauge, water temperature 344035
1 Gauge, oil pressure 344036
1 Voltmeter 344037
1 Switch, rocker 344039
1 Gauge, hourmeter kit GM28814
1 Nut, hex M934-04-B

(Although, depending upon availability and price...building one or having an electrical shop build one for you may actually be cheaper and/or easier)

 

[jefndeb]

Yes sir, I have searched all those part numbers and nothing comes up....zero..

 

[STB]

Hi Jefndeb,

How about these?

-- https://www.colburnpower.com/kohler-part-344041-s-rem-start-4-meter-panel-pa-344041.html
-- https://www.generator-parts.com/kohler-parts/kohler-344041-s-rem-start-4-meter-panel-pa-344041.html

-- Kohler PA-344040 Remote Starter With 2-Meter Panel Gauges (For Marine, RV/Mobile Applications) OBSOLETE


Quoting myself, "Although, depending upon availability and price...building one or having an electrical shop build one for you may actually be cheaper and/or easier"

 

[STB]

Hi Jefndeb,

I don't want to suggest that not having gauges is a good thing. But, I guess it is worth noting that, unlike engines, generators are designed to be run unattended.

Engines are normally only run when the boat is being attended and therefore monitored.

But, generators are run when the boat isn't necessarily carefully attended, such as when folks are asleep, or when those who might otherwise be monitoring the mechanical systems are entertaining. And, the same is true in other settings -- most buildings that have generators have them set up to kick on and off automatically, unattended. And, even those that require a manual switch-over are designed to have them run without continuous monitoring.

So, unlike most main engines, which report their state to the operator via gauges and alarms, most generators are self-monitoring. If anything typically measurable goes wrong, e.g. temperature, oil pressure, AC output, etc, they shut themselves off rather than merely allowing an operator to (hopefully) monitor the condition and decide what to do.

So, although I like gauges (and I do), if I am ever to trust my generator when I am not staring at them -- I have to trust it to be able to shut itself down. And that means, if I am ever to trust my generator to do its job -- I have to be able to trust it to shut itself down.

In my old boat, I added gauges by building my own panel. In my new boat, which also has a Kohler, I'll eventually do the same. But, I do trust it to shut down.

And, in my last boat, I didn't have dual panels, just one. And, it wasn't on the flybridge. The one time I had a problem with the generator (failed shaft or shaft seal, I forget, on raw water pump), the genset shut itself down before I noticed. And, that was a generator form 1977 using a relay-based controller.

 

[Comodave]

All my Onan has is the start stop switch. I rely on the safeties in the engine to shut it down if there is a problem. I would not sit and watch the genset panel gauges even if I had them, so really why have them? It isn’t like the main engines where you sit at the helm and regularly check the gauges the genset will run for hours and hours without anyone looking at the gauges anyway.

 

[STB]

Comodave,

I mostly added the gauges so I could occasionally look over at them and measure long-term health things, such as the oil pressure and water temperature after warm up at typical loads. It wasn't so much to check for what was going on in the moment, but so I might be able to notice, for example, the temps creeping up over time and know to clean out the heat exchanger, or that my power output was lower or higher than it normally was for the temperature that it was at, or whatever.

I also just enjoyed looking at it to see how many watts I was using at any point in time.
And, sometimes this was actually useful, especially when I had guests over. I can remember one day I was running the AC, the oven, the microwave, and I don't remember what else off of the generator while moored. And, I felt a lot better pushing it that hard when I was able to look over and see that the KW output was high, but within spec, and the temperature was barely different than normal, and the frequency was a little droopy, but well within spec.

I also used them when doing the tune up to set the RPM on the governor as a 2nd check to my photo tach.

Cheers!
-Greg

 

[BruceK]

My Onan MDKD 6.5 has no gauges either. Remote preheat/start/stop replicated at the helm. I once had a survey mechanic onboard who asked how to tell it was making amps, in hindsight I should have suggested he insert his fingers in a power outlet.

 

[ranger58sb]

The Kohler 8EOZ has a 3TNE74 Yanmar engine; possibly searching Yanmar stuff may help locate gauges and so forth.

Ours has about 1300 hours one it; haven't ever felt the need to look at a gauge... the ON/OFF light has been sufficient.

Hope I didn't jinx anything by typing that...

Keep an eye on your secondary fuel filter assembly; it's only a press-fit design, and that fitting can fail. Lots o' diesel in the engine room if that happens...

-Chris

 

[Baker]

Good luck. As someone who just a lost a raw water pump on my 8EOZ, it was hell trying to find something as vital as that. The hardware is good. The customer support is horrible. And the "dealers" hate the fact that they are dealers. I called 3 dealers in my area and when I asked if they were Kohler Dealers every single one of them had a long pause before they answered very cautiously in the affirmative. I found my pump. It is supposed to arrive today. Of course it isn't an exact fit so it coes with a "pulley kit" as I will be having to modify the pulley. Wish me luck. I have always defended Kohler. I no longer will.

 

[ranger58sb]

Ours is just a Sherwood pump. I deduce it's a G907P, since the original (I think) is marked G907P YLB. I had it rebuilt once, 2013, but I think it's original aside from that. See examples at Overton's etc.

Some caveats, though. They have some specialized parts assembly (PA) variations, depending on serial number. For example, our PA is #126176, which is Variation 18, for some parts in Group 104... and our impeller repair kit is for SN 296899 and above (ours is well above). That PA thing might have affected the water pump number, but I don't have a note about that here to hand.

FWIW, I was looking around for oil filters today, since it's about time. Found the Wix equivalent is their #51064 for the Kohler #229678. $11 versus $19.

-Chris

 

[Baker]

And look what arrived today...

 

[ranger58sb]

Of course it isn't an exact fit so it coes with a "pulley kit" as I will be having to modify the pulley.

Really modify? Or just adjust for tension? Not sure I understand, if it's the correct OEM pump...

Although of course yours may be in a different serial number range than ours...

-Chris

 

[jefndeb]

So I have done some reading and I was thinking that maybe I can just buy a Oil Pressure gauge and a Water Temp gauge, maybe automotive type, that reads the signals from the existing genset sensors??....another words,,build my own ...

I see basic gauges are inexpensive but can anyone verify the signals/resistance values the kohler sensors provide?...that part I am not sure of yet.

I think, similar to a water or fuel sensor they send a resistance value, that varies and that drives the needle..

I am also guessing that since there is no gauge installed that those outputs are wired/capped but not used...I can provide 12v & ground to the two gauges and then run the sender wires to the gauge...pretty much the same as the schematic above...

I found this Optional Panel but its over $500....dont need another start/stop switch...if I can find two gauges like these i'm good!!!!

Thoughts???

 

[STB]

To my knowledge, the senders are not necessarily pre-installed. They are part of a sender kit. See the parts manual, page 68:
-- https://www.atlantismarine.co.uk/Images/User//File/TP5616.PDF

Page 43 of the service manual gives the values, which look like they'll work with many (but not all) commonly available gauges. So, if they are installed, you can match them to compatible gauges:
-- https://atlantismarine.co.uk/Images/User//File/TP6053.PDF

 

[STB]

It is probably important to note that "senders" and "switches" are not the same thing. The generator does have an "oil pressure switch", "water temperature switch", "exhaust gas temperature switch", and maybe more, already installed. These are just used to shut-down the generator at some fixed level. The "senders" vary resistance with whatever they are sensing, to allow it to be measured by gauge(s).

 

[jefndeb]

Oh ok, yes I see the diagram shows the senders as optional....hmmmm

 

[STB]

Jefndeb,

It isn't a big deal. Look for the ports on the engine and exhaust. There will likely be plugs in them. Then buy senders and gauges to match.

If you want a tach, you can probably take it off of the alternator.

But, even easier is to put a frequency gauge on the 120VAC output right at the generator (or anywhere else, but taking it off of the output to the boat might not work under some start up, shutdown, or error conditions when the RPMs aren't high enough to put out good power -- I'd have to look at the protections on that model ).

The 120VAC frequency should be approximately 60Hz, just like the engine should be at approximately 1800 RPM. There is a 30:1 ratio between the two. So, if one varies a little, the other will, too. I'd guess they should be +/- 5% of 60Hz/1800RPM, varying from no load to full load.

 

[ranger58sb]

FWIW, I was looking around for oil filters today, since it's about time. Found the Wix equivalent is their #51064 for the Kohler #229678. $11 versus $19.

Hold the phone on that tidbit.

I ordered both 229678 and 51064 for comparison; they arrived, and the WIX filter is larger... although it looks like the same threads and gasket. May well work, if there's space to install it.

A common filter for the 3TNE74 in various (non-Kohler) applications is Yanmar #119305-35170 (which replaced -35151, which replaced -35150)... and the WIX tool suggests it's actually the same size as the Kohler 229678.

I've asked Wix some ???s

-Chris

 

[porman]

The Sierra equivalent to the Kohler 229678 is number 23-7822. $12.25 from Amazon at this time.

 

[ranger58sb]

The Sierra equivalent to the Kohler 229678 is number 23-7822. $12.25 from Amazon at this time.

Thanks. Useful cross-reference. Is that essentially the same size as the Kohler OEM filter?

I see it on Amazon for $17.99 free shipping or other offers from $17.39??

Got an answer from Wix:

​

"We are aware of the height and outside diameter differences between Kohler 229678 and WIX 51064. This is not a new interchange and have never presented itself as an issue."

So I guess if there's room to install it, the Wix #51064 will work OK.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Got an answer from Wix:

"We are aware of the height and outside diameter differences between Kohler 229678 and WIX 51064. This is not a new interchange and have never presented itself as an issue."​

So I guess if there's room to install it, the Wix #51064 will work OK.

Hmmm... more from Wix. I had slightly edited their first response; the full note was:

"You should only use the filters that we list by application. We will not warranty or stand behind any filter not listed by application and that is the most important advantage. We are aware of the height and outside diameter differences between Kohler 229678 and WIX 51064. This is not a new interchange and have never presented itself as an issue."​

I assumed that second part meant the Wix #51064 is good to go in place of the Kohler #229678.

But when I thanked them for that, I also mentioned I hadn't been able to find a Wix filter for the Kohler 8EOZ when searching with their tool by application. I thought that was just lack of knowledge on my part, but their response is:

"Yes sir,
It’s not listed, this means that we don’t recommend a filter for the application.
Have a wonderful Day!"​

Which, when taken together, seems to mean the 51064 is a replacement for the Kohler 229678 but Wix neither recommends it nor warranties it for that application.

-Chris

 

[porman]

Ranger, yes, the Sierra filter is the same size as the Kohler filter. Funny you get a different price from Amazon. Maybe it's because we are Prime members.

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks. And yes, maybe that's it. Didn't know Prime prices might be lower, though; just thought it was about shipping costs.

-Chris