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Old 03-21-2020, 07:04 PM   #21
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@Redhook98
I am having the same problem, so I thank you for posting this up and am looking forward to hearing your resolution/s.
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:28 PM   #22
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Don't know if I will get a chance this year to try the fixes as my boat is in Alaska and I'm not.

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Old 03-21-2020, 08:01 PM   #23
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The nice thing about diesels is, when things go wrong, it is either air or fuel or electric if there is electronic ignition. Of course we need to have the air and fuel in the right place.
No longer do I have a naturally aspirated engine so I need the battery power to start and to keep the engine running.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:49 AM   #24
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Would adding a heater just be glossing over the real problem?. It starts ok when it’s warm so keep it warm - yet no need to fit one to the other engine because it starts just fine when it’s cold. There’s a gremlin hiding there somewhere waiting to be found me thinks.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeJay View Post
Would adding a heater just be glossing over the real problem?. It starts ok when it’s warm so keep it warm - yet no need to fit one to the other engine because it starts just fine when it’s cold. There’s a gremlin hiding there somewhere waiting to be found me thinks.

In most situations, I agree with you 100% and am not the kind of person to put a bandaid on things, or gloss over a real problem. But in saying that.... According to Brian, it is most likely there is a compression related issue or injector issue (my next troubleshooting expedition). His logic, (and I agree), is if that is the case, keeping it warm is a much better solution than breaking it apart and attempting to rebuild. It runs perfectly once started and starts very easily when warm. Plus, the rebuild it has only has 100 or so hours on it. Possibly not broken in properly.


It does start even cold now without ether. New batteries (dual Group 31 tractor batteries in parallel) did wonders. The head re-torque and valve adjustments didn't see to make a difference. When cold (40 degrees outside and not started in a few days), it takes about 30 seconds of total cranking (intermittently, not continuous) to start it.
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:08 PM   #26
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Ether is lethal for diesels.

You did not answer, if you had tried starting it with the cold start method?
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:19 PM   #27
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When I was a teenager my dad related a story about a contractor he had engaged who tried to start his D8 Cat Dozer in the dead of a Connecticut winter with ether. He blew the head off.
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Ether is lethal for diesels.

You did not answer, if you had tried starting it with the cold start method?
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Old 03-26-2020, 01:58 PM   #28
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Yes, ether can ruin a diesel. IF you are determined to use it spray it on a rag and hold the rag by the air intake.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:13 PM   #29
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Ether is lethal for diesels.

You did not answer, if you had tried starting it with the cold start method?



The button on the cold start feature will not stay in. The other motor does, this one does not. holding the Stop button and cranking a little while seems to help (believe that is essentially the same thing)
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
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The button on the cold start feature will not stay in. The other motor does, this one does not. holding the Stop button and cranking a little while seems to help (believe that is essentially the same thing)
do you have an electric solonoid? I have manual cable pull, the electric switch may be faulty.

get in ER and have someone press the one working to see what it does and then look at what the other is not doing.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:14 PM   #31
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The long cranking helps by creating heat in the engine from compression. The cold start feature on my boat works by putting the throttles full open, press and release the cold start button, pull throttles back to idle and then start. By pushing the button I am setting the high speed idle, I think that is what it is called. If yours isn't holding then that may well be your problem. I would troubleshoot that first and see if that fixes it.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:49 PM   #32
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Red hook 98, the stop button is not at all the same thing. Comodave nailed it. Try that function for the next start and let us know how that works?

Good point about the stop solenoid, does it snap open when you start cranking? If not, it might be delaying the fuel.

Turning over an old clam-crusher like these Lehman’s produces plenty of heat immediately such that diesel fuel ignites immediately. That’s why your good engine starts right up, in fact almost all of them do! At least one cylinder is all it takes.

I think your issue is entirely fuel, there isn’t any getting in right away, there is a delay. If the cold start routine works I would start looking for an injection pump.
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:26 PM   #33
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This is slightly off-topic but, I once owned a DeFever with a single 120 FL that was hard to start (actually would not start) in the cold PNW winter. My solution was to aim a hair dryer into the air intake while cranking. Worked every time. Unplug the shorepower cord and go.
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Old 03-27-2020, 04:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
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This is slightly off-topic but, I once owned a DeFever with a single 120 FL that was hard to start (actually would not start) in the cold PNW winter. My solution was to aim a hair dryer into the air intake while cranking. Worked every time. Unplug the shorepower cord and go.
Hmmm interesting cure. Your preheat glow plug did not work?
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:35 PM   #35
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Hmmm interesting cure. Your preheat glow plug did not work?

This was a FL 2715-E 6 cylinder. They had no glow plugs. The DeFever was a 1979 model. I miss that boat.
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:45 PM   #36
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This was a FL 2715-E 6 cylinder. They had no glow plugs. The DeFever was a 1979 model. I miss that boat.
Wifie bring me your hair dryer so we can leave the dock.
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:38 PM   #37
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Pre heat

the described scenario is chillingly close to mine in that I rebuilt one of my engines after it got a gut full of sea water from the exhaust and it too was amazingly difficult to start so I fitted an air pre heater from a Mazda 3500 truck engine ($60Aus approx) and I press a button on the dash for 30 seconds prior to ignition ( you need to install a solenoid in the system and take the power for the heater off battery leads at the starter ) and it starts very well. Just to add another place to look in the mix, I was drawing a lot of amps on start up as well and the starter was a bit slower than it should have been and after checking all connections , changing batteries etc, I pulled the starter motor down and one of the brushes was jammed just enough for it to not be making contact so I cleaned all the brushes and guides and now it spins over really fast and with the heater never gives any trouble. Have you compared the spinning/cranking speed to the other motor at start up ?
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Old 03-29-2020, 02:06 AM   #38
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Air leak

[
QUOTE=jleonard;857845]It also sounds like an air leak to me. I would check every fitting and connection by loosening and retightening.
FF's plan is a good one too.[/QUOTE]

Unless there is something your not telling us it’s very, very likely an air leak.
The aero start just kicks it along so rpm is enough to overcome.
It’s going to be nearly impossible to find as fuel probably won’t leak out.
Also when you have fixed it you probably won’t realise until it starts behaving normally.
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:08 PM   #39
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Ford Lehman 120

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhook98 View Post
I know this is a beat to death subject, but I cant seem to find any good answers yet that have worked out. I have two Ford Lehman 120s in my 1979 MT. Both original and circa 1979. One has been completely rebuilt, including a new injection pump. The other is original with 2400 hours. The one with 2400 hours starts easily, no issues. The rebuilt one is the problem child.
The rebuilt one simply does not want to start when cold. Tried all different settings to the throttle lever, no joy. Removed the CAV filters and installed the adapters. Bled the system, no joy. Installed a Facet electric fuel pump in line with the lift pump, no difference. Bled the system again using the electric fuel pump. Again, no joy.
I do hear a slight tapping noise from the engine in question. Air trapped in an injector? Badly adjusted valve? Wouldn't the electric pump power me through any fuel leak issues? I'm stumped.....
Once running, it runs great. Runs out to 2500 if I want it to and sounds smooth. Have to use a short spurt of starting fluid most times. No smoke (other than the normal amount of light smoke from a 40 year old motor). Restarts easily when warm as well.

Tapping sound is most likely a valve or valves. Easy fix. The starting issue could be anything. Have you called American Diesel and spoken with Brian? That would be my first start and then I'd go to a reputable local mech.
My Ford Lehman 120 is 36 years old, has 7600 hrs, never been rebuilt and runs like a charm (knock on wood).
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhook98 View Post
I know this is a beat to death subject, but I cant seem to find any good answers yet that have worked out. I have two Ford Lehman 120s in my 1979 MT. Both original and circa 1979. One has been completely rebuilt, including a new injection pump. The other is original with 2400 hours. The one with 2400 hours starts easily, no issues. The rebuilt one is the problem child.

The rebuilt one simply does not want to start when cold. Tried all different settings to the throttle lever, no joy. Removed the CAV filters and installed the adapters. Bled the system, no joy. Installed a Facet electric fuel pump in line with the lift pump, no difference. Bled the system again using the electric fuel pump. Again, no joy.

Once running, it runs great. Runs out to 2500 if I want it to and sounds smooth. Have to use a short spurt of starting fluid most times. No smoke (other than the normal amount of light smoke from a 40 year old motor). Restarts easily when warm as well.

I do hear a slight tapping noise from the engine in question. Air trapped in an injector? Badly adjusted valve? Wouldn't the electric pump power me through any fuel leak issues? I'm stumped.....
I just this morning finished adjusting the valves on one of my FL 120s. I found that there was almost no lash in five of six cylinders. On start-up after adjustment the engine ran significantly more smoothly and with much less smoke out the exhaust which also cleared up very much more quickly. Start-up was quicker as well.

You say your engine was rebuilt. The manual calls for the head bolts to be re-torqued on a new engine after the first fifteen hours of running along with a valve adjustment. Was this ever done on your new engine? I talked with Brian Smith when I ordered new valve cover gaskets. He recommends re-torquing the heads and adjusting the valves every 500 hours. He also said that re-torquing the heads should be done before adjusting the valves. For FL 135 owners, the heads are never to be re-torqued. Tomorrow I will be doing the other engine. I will report my results.

As for your other engine, you would do well to torque the heads and adjust the valves. Below you will find the procedure for adjusting the valves. To torque the head follow the tightening sequence in your manual. Loosen each head bolt and re-tighten to 110 foot-pounds.

Valve Setting Procedure for Ford Lehman 120/135

Intake Valve Lash (120) - .012
Exhaust Valve Lash (120) - .015

Intake Valve Lash (135) - .015
Exhaust Valve Lash (135) - .015

Valve Sequence from Front of Motor:

Valve 1 – Exhaust
Valve 2 – Intake
Valve 3 – Exhaust
Valve 4 – Intake
Valve 5 – Intake
Valve 6 – Exhaust
Valve 7 – Exhaust
Valve 8 – Intake
Valve 9 – Intake
Valve 10 – Exhaust
Valve 11 – Intake
Valve 12 – Exhaust

To Set Valves:

Rock Cylinder 6, Set Cylinder 1
Rock Cylinder 2, Set Cylinder 5
Rock Cylinder 4, Set Cylinder 3
Rock Cylinder 1, Set Cylinder 6
Rock Cylinder 5, Set Cylinder 2
Rock Cylinder 3, Set Cylinder 4

Rocking Procedure:

Using a breaker bar and a 7/8 socket installed on the center bolt of the flywheel pulley, rotate the engine clockwise until the No.6 cylinder exhaust valve fully opens and the intake valve begins to close. The springs of both are at their highest at this point. Rock in both directions until both are not moving up or down. Then set the intake and exhaust valve lash on Cylinder No. 1.

Then rock 2, 4, 1, 5, and 3 in order. This will happen as the engine is continued to be rotated clockwise.

Note: The cylinder head on a Lehman 120 must be re-torqued (110 ft.-pounds) before setting the valve lash. On a Lehman 135 the head must NOT be re-torqued.
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