Engine in, still doesn't run yet.

[CooperBrewer]

Well, we got one engine rebuilt and ready to start. Only problem, can't get it to start. Got spark, Rebuilt carbs, and got a new Edelbrock. Going to try that next.

 

[boomerang]

Well, we got one engine rebuilt and ready to start. Only problem, can't get it to start. Got spark, Rebuilt carbs, and got a new Edelbrock. Going to try that next.

Have you double-checked your firing order? I rebuilt a 440 Chrysler in a boat I had many years ago. While it started & ran, it didn't run well. After rebuilding the carburetor and then replacing the camshaft, I found I had crossed 2 of the plug wires. I was so happy that it was finally running like it was supposed to run that I wasn't the least bit upset about the labor & money I wasted due to my carelessness!

 

[MYTraveler]

Firing order will get you. One time my cams were out of phase by 360 degrees. Took me quite a few beers to figure that one out.

Is it firing at all, like trying to start? Mine wasn't and that was a major clue. Also, use starting fluid to get it going -- that way you can ignore carbuerator type issues all together.

And here is a tidbit, even though you have a gas engine -- with diesel, don't use starting fluid, but use WD40 as if it were starting fluid.

 

[tiltrider1]

Is it a counter rotating engine? Completely different firing order if it is. Or did you put the distributor in 180 out. Happens to the best of us.

 

[Ski in NC]

Yep, double check that distributor is not installed 180deg out. With rotor tip aiming at #1 and timing mark at zero, #1 could be at TDC firing or TDC valve overlap. If at valve overlap, it will not start.

 

[High Wire]

I had an old Ford Mustang that I put the distributor in one tooth off. It had good spark but didn't run either.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

If you have older gassers they may be counter rotating. Be sure you have installed the correct starter on the correct engine.

pete

 

[rslifkin]

When you go to do distributor timing, be aware that not all counter rotation setups are the same. Depending on the engines and who marinized them, some spin the cam and crank backwards (meaning a different distributor for reverse rotation). Others, like my Mercruiser 454s spin the crank backwards on one engine, but use a gear drive for the cam, so the cam and distributor still spin the standard direction (just with a differently ground cam).

 

[CooperBrewer]

Yep, double check that distributor is not installed 180deg out. With rotor tip aiming at #1 and timing mark at zero, #1 could be at TDC firing or TDC valve overlap. If at valve overlap, it will not start.

I made sure that the #1 cylinder was on the compression stroke with a compression gauge. When I first got it together, it was 180 out, but now I'm 99.95% sure it is correct. I am going to check the firing order and trace out all the plug wires, when I'm back onboard

 

[CooperBrewer]

When you go to do distributor timing, be aware that not all counter rotation setups are the same. Depending on the engines and who marinized them, some spin the cam and crank backwards (meaning a different distributor for reverse rotation). Others, like my Mercruiser 454s spin the crank backwards on one engine, but use a gear drive for the cam, so the cam and distributor still spin the standard direction (just with a differently ground cam).

I believe both my engines to be the same. The counter-rotation is done in the transmission. Both have timing chains... and when viewed from the flywheel, they spin clockwise.

 

[CooperBrewer]

If you have older gassers they may be counter rotating. Be sure you have installed the correct starter on the correct engine.

pete

I believe that both my engines are the same. They both have timing chains, and when viewed from the flywheel they spin clockwise.

 

[rslifkin]

I believe both my engines to be the same. The counter-rotation is done in the transmission. Both have timing chains... and when viewed from the flywheel, they spin clockwise.

Perfect, that makes things easy.

 

[Ski in NC]

A std rotation engine rotates CCW when viewed from FW end, looking fwd. Not CW.

Are the FW's on the front of the engines (very old skool) or on the back (typical modern).

 

[CooperBrewer]

A std rotation engine rotates CCW when viewed from FW end, looking fwd. Not CW.

Are the FW's on the front of the engines (very old skool) or on the back (typical modern).

The engines are 1980's models. Both flywheels are in the rear. The starter is on the right hand side (when viewed from the rear) on both engines... and turns the flywheel clockwise. I thought that the reverse rotation engines have timing gears, instead of a chain.

 

[Ski in NC]

If you have std rotation engines with the FW on the back, and you are looking at the back looking fwd, the FW's should be rotating CCW.

Got the wrong starters??

 

[CooperBrewer]

If you have std rotation engines with the FW on the back, and you are looking at the back looking fwd, the FW's should be rotating CCW.

Got the wrong starters??

I will check again when I get back onboard. I think the starters that would spin the flywheel the opposite, would not engage the flywheel and would be mounted on the other side of the engine, but I will look into it more... thank you.

 

[Comodave]

We bought a boat with a newly rebuilt engine. It would start but had no power. Found that the rebuilder had put an automotive cam in instead of a marine cam. The firing order was all messed up. But it would at least start and run up in neutral.

 

[CooperBrewer]

I will check again when I get back onboard. I think the starters that would spin the flywheel the opposite, would not engage the flywheel and would be mounted on the other side of the engine, but I will look into it more... thank you.

You're right (I think) my starter is spinning the flywheel in the wrong direction for this engine. Putting the correct starter on...today. Did I cause any damage to my engine by trying to start it in reverse?

Thank you, it got me looking. It does appear my starter was wrong.

I'm going to check firing order again and try to start it the "right" way, which is CCW at the flywheel.

I'll let you know. Thank you

 

[CooperBrewer]

UPDATE: Our port side engine is RUNNING!

YaY!

Thank you, everyone for your help!

 

[CooperBrewer]

You're right (I think) my starter is spinning the flywheel in the wrong direction for this engine. Putting the correct starter on...today. Did I cause any damage to my engine by trying to start it in reverse?

Thank you, it got me looking. It does appear my starter was wrong.

I'm going to check firing order again and try to start it the "right" way, which is CCW at the flywheel.

I'll let you know. Thank you

Thank you!
The reverse rotation starter was our main issue. Once I got the correct starter in and fixed 2 plug wires I had reversed, she fired right up!

 

[porman]

You're lucky. I've seen the wrong starter on a reverse rotation engine suck water into the cylinders.

 

[rslifkin]

You're lucky. I've seen the wrong starter on a reverse rotation engine suck water into the cylinders.

On a fresh install that hadn't actually run, everything was probably still dry (and the seawater pump wouldn't have primed and moved water while spinning backwards), so that likely avoided the issue.

 

[BruceK]

Glad it`s solved! But how did it happen? Rebuilder supplied the wrong starter motor?

 

[CooperBrewer]

On a fresh install that hadn't actually run, everything was probably still dry (and the seawater pump wouldn't have primed and moved water while spinning backwards), so that likely avoided the issue.

I disconnected the seawater pump (removed the drive belt) before trying to start the fresh engine. I did not replace the belt until after the engine was running correctly.

 

[CooperBrewer]

Glad it`s solved! But how did it happen? Rebuilder supplied the wrong starter motor?

The builder was me (mostly). I had someone rebuild the block for me, but I installed the heads, with new valves. etc. When I went to do a compression check (months ago) before putting the new motor down into the hole (hull) the old starter was questionable. I replaced it, and didn't realize that I got the wrong one, until "Ski in NC" got me to checking. Doh!

 

[tiltrider1]

As you now know a counter rotating engine looks exactly like a normal rotation engine. The only difference is the grind on the cams, the firing order and the starter. Since you didn't mention the starter update I assumed you had the same starter and that is why I went to the distributor being 180 out. The other common failure is people looking up the firing order on line and being totally unaware of counter rotating engines.

 

[CooperBrewer]

As you now know a counter rotating engine looks exactly like a normal rotation engine. The only difference is the grind on the cams, the firing order and the starter. Since you didn't mention the starter update I assumed you had the same starter and that is why I went to the distributor being 180 out. The other common failure is people looking up the firing order on line and being totally unaware of counter rotating engines.

When I got the boat, I was told that the engines were both "standard" rotation, which they are. My biggest mistake was replacing the starter, with a reverse rotation starter. Since I'm far from an "expert" on these engines, I didn't pay enough attention to the fact that the engine was turning the wrong way! I did the compression check, etc. and primed the oil and lifters etc., with a drill and old distributor shaft, before installing the engine in the hole.... all the while, not realizing my starter was wrong. When I finally got to the point of starting the engine, and asking questions on here, and then going back and checking (I only go to the boat on weekends)I realized my mistake. It's a closed cooling system and I didn't have the seawater seacock open, as I was trying to start it. It fired almost immediately, when I got the starter right

 

[CooperBrewer]

As you now know a counter rotating engine looks exactly like a normal rotation engine. The only difference is the grind on the cams, the firing order and the starter. Since you didn't mention the starter update I assumed you had the same starter and that is why I went to the distributor being 180 out. The other common failure is people looking up the firing order on line and being totally unaware of counter rotating engines.

Yes, I've also heard that on these engines, the counter-rotating one normally has a gear set for cam timing and not a timing chain. I pretty much knew I had standard engines all along. The wrong starter, I attribute to a novice mistake

 

[FF]

The usual quick check for a gas engine start is a quick shot of ether ,AKA starting fluid.

Only on a cold not run engine

If the engine runs for a couple of seconds the ignition is fine , its a fuel problem

If the engine bangs and bucks , look at the ignition side.

This is never perfect , but it should at least show where to start looking.

 

[CooperBrewer]

The usual quick check for a gas engine start is a quick shot of ether ,AKA starting fluid.

Only on a cold not run engine

If the engine runs for a couple of seconds the ignition is fine , its a fuel problem

If the engine bangs and bucks , look at the ignition side.

This is never perfect , but it should at least show where to start looking.

Thank you, we got it to run though. It was turning backwards. I will remember this, though.