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Old 03-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #321
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Art,

Are you competing in the X-prize?

http://carbon.xprize.org/
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:44 PM   #322
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I'm no student of this stuff but have wondered...what was the trigger / mechanism that caused the ice age?
I'm sure it wasn't man refraining from burning hydrocarbons but what was it?
My theory? Multiple triggering mechanisms, acting independently of each other, which when happening concurrently generate enough cumulative effect to trigger an ice age, and then off we go!

The usual suspect is the cold, ocean bottom southerly Greenland current relationship with the warm, ocean surface northerly Gulf Stream which cycles warm tropical waters to north western Europe. Cut that off and things get chilly quick.

This year however, we have the massive warm water Pacific Blob's effect on the jet stream which has pushed the typical weather systems south.

Here on north coast BC it's been downright spooky...one cold snap after another, clear cold skies, and strong northerly outflow winds. Vancouver got our snow and California got Vancouver's rain.

It wouldn't take too many winters like this to start a "localized ice age" in the Coast Mountains. I've seen avalanche chutes still holding snow on the floors of narrow valleys around here well into the next years fall...and that was during regular summers and winters. Wouldn't take too long for the side valleys to fill in and then start oozing into the main valleys at all if you string together a couple hundred cold winters.

Add a bunch of those localized conditions together across the globe until the tipping point is reach, and it's a global ice age.

If correct, my theory holds the ironic potential of describing how humanly nudged global warming (climate change) could trigger at least a mini ice age in the Coast Mountains of BC.

Hard to predict future events in a system you do not fully comprehend!
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:56 PM   #323
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I figure there is just too many people, too many fatties in one location. Take a couple of billion of 'em and spread them out all over the planet instead of letting 'em cluster in cities and the earth will stop wobbling. Imagine if you took all those people in New Orleans or Dallas and you made a rule that each one couldn't be closer than a km from his neighbour? No more wobble, plus, no more colds and we'd all just be perfectly comfortable. In fact, anyone have Al Gore's phone number? I'll get right on it.
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #324
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Art, I wish you and your project well. We need lots of new ideas to be developed and pursued.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:19 PM   #325
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I did the sums on Tesla battery's running a house and what worried me was by the time they hit payback there was a bigger chance they would need replacing so I gave it a miss along with the realestate valuation advice the panels would reduce the home value by $60000 because of there ugleyness And if I moved house in 5 years it wold be no $$$ what so ever Back to smelly coal for me
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:25 PM   #326
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Art,

Are you competing in the X-prize?

NRG COSIA Carbon XPRIZE Home Page
Those things can get squirrely once you sign up. They want to own some stringent rights to your items, just for being allowed into the competition... well before winner is chosen. Pages and pages of fine print. Sequestration is what they're primarily after. Full-Cycle use as fuel, editable plant life growth expeditor and refrigeration is what I want to provide. Sequestration [depositing and then containing CO2 underground - in salt mines and the like] is costly to accomplish and pretty much a dead end street for initial capitalization/income via sales - good storage for CO2 to be later used to create products... but why wait!! Sequestered CO2 could be used as trade off for certain pollution prone corporations to purchase "carbon credits" by financing the sequestration syndromes.

That said, sequestration will also come into play as this all evolves into more 21st Century decades. We're early-on at this time. Unfortunately, to a large extent still spinning our wheels - so to say... doing our best to gain traction!

But, once traction get a good, firm grip - Annie Bar the Doors!
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:38 PM   #327
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Art, I wish you and your project well. We need lots of new ideas to be developed and pursued.
Thanks, Dave

BTW - Auto Thanks link at right hand bottom of posts has not worked for me for well over a month. Others having same problem??
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #328
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I figure there is just too many people, too many fatties in one location. Take a couple of billion of 'em and spread them out all over the planet instead of letting 'em cluster in cities and the earth will stop wobbling. Imagine if you took all those people in New Orleans or Dallas and you made a rule that each one couldn't be closer than a km from his neighbour? No more wobble, plus, no more colds and we'd all just be perfectly comfortable. In fact, anyone have Al Gore's phone number? I'll get right on it.
And scientists thought the wobbling slow down of the Earths rotation was due to how much fresh water has been dammed up in reservoirs in the northern hemisphere. Gotta get those down under types to super-size their fries more often!!
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:50 PM   #329
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Thanks, Dave

BTW - Auto Thanks link at right hand bottom of posts has not worked for me for well over a month. Others having same problem??
Works for me. The problem with it is that I never notice if someone has sent me a thanks. Maybe I don't have the settings in my profile configured properly to be notified? I am sure that folks think I am just ignoring their gracious thank you's.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:11 PM   #330
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I figure there is just too many people, too many fatties in one location. Take a couple of billion of 'em and spread them out all over the planet instead of letting 'em cluster in cities and the earth will stop wobbling. Imagine if you took all those people in New Orleans or Dallas and you made a rule that each one couldn't be closer than a km from his neighbour? No more wobble, plus, no more colds and we'd all just be perfectly comfortable. In fact, anyone have Al Gore's phone number? I'll get right on it.
How wrong you are. The best thing to do with the billions of humans is to pack them tightly in cities. Toward the city you provide fuel, electricity, food, merchandise, and money. Out from the city you get smoke, garbage, pee and poop.

Meanwhile, with all the humans packed in the cities, the rural areas can revert to more natural conditions. Trees and grasslands thrive where there used to be humans. Farms exist and thrive where needed to support the cities. Since cities do not want industry anymore, those locate out to the hinterlands, but that is ok too.

Last thing you want to do is spread the humans all over the place. They do much less damage if you keep them packed in tight in a small area.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:22 PM   #331
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How wrong you are. The best thing to do with the billions of humans is to pack them tightly in cities. Toward the city you provide fuel, electricity, food, merchandise, and money. Out from the city you get smoke, garbage, pee and poop.

Meanwhile, with all the humans packed in the cities, the rural areas can revert to more natural conditions. Trees and grasslands thrive where there used to be humans. Farms exist and thrive where needed to support the cities. Since cities do not want industry anymore, those locate out to the hinterlands, but that is ok too.

Last thing you want to do is spread the humans all over the place. They do much less damage if you keep them packed in tight in a small area.
Decades ago I did quick calc for # of humans alive then... probably a billion or two less than now.

Anyway, I figured if we all stood shoulder to shoulder and belly to butt with nose touching back of head that all civilization could fit on the state of Massachusetts - with plenty room to spare!
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:15 AM   #332
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"generate enough cumulative effect to trigger an ice age, and then off we go!"

According to history we are in an interglacine period , in other words between the ice ages.

The next ice age will come , in time , regardless of weather we dump ethanol in our fuel or not.

Far better to plan for a mile or two of ice on NYC , than try to stop the inevitable.
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:38 AM   #333
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"generate enough cumulative effect to trigger an ice age, and then off we go!"

According to history we are in an interglacine period , in other words between the ice ages.

The next ice age will come , in time , regardless of weather we dump ethanol in our fuel or not.

Far better to plan for a mile or two of ice on NYC , than try to stop the inevitable.
Yup. Something triggers ice ages and something triggers warming cycles, and we don't really know which triggers which.

From the extensive research I've done on this topic ( ) we are now at the average warming cycle peak and nowhere near as warm as it was 90 million years ago when there were Asian land turtles in the Arctic.

We're busy chucking pebbles in the pond with no idea what the ripples are going to do, and Nature (Gaia) will average things out in the end. That was my point about us warming things up could ironically start a mini or full blown ice age. Who knows?

The lesser talked about problem of our meddling is that the ocean absorbs 1/4 of the carbon dioxide we produce, causing ocean acidification. Bad news for shellfish, corals, or many plankton species and all which depend on them...which is about 1 billion people...
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:09 PM   #334
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"The lesser talked about problem of our meddling is that the ocean absorbs 1/4 of the carbon dioxide we produce, causing ocean acidification"

Iron mine tailings crushed can cause a food bloom that feeds , as well as sequesters Co2 when the life dies and sinks.

Just takes someone interested enough to PAY for it.
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #335
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Works for me. The problem with it is that I never notice if someone has sent me a thanks. Maybe I don't have the settings in my profile configured properly to be notified? I am sure that folks think I am just ignoring their gracious thank you's.
Dave

From full website - Quick Links - User Control Panel - Edit Options

One of the choices is...

The forum can send a message to your email address to inform you when someone sends you a private message.
Receive Email Notification of New Private Messages

Would you like to receive a PM whenever someone thanks you for your contribution?
Receive a PM Notification When a Post of Yours is Thanked
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:12 PM   #336
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  1. "- Picture Planet Earth as a living body that spent billions of years systematically/very-slowly "sequestering" [putting deep underground] the trillions of tons carbon from the death of its carbon-filled surface-living things. That is what formed the oil wells, coal mines, natural gas deposits... etc."

That's one THEORY, there are others,

  1. Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real! - viewzone.com

    viewzone.com/abioticoilx.html

    Abiotic Oil. The abiotic oil formation theory suggests that crude oil is the result of naturally occurring and possibly ongoing geological processes.
Totally AGREE, oil is made deep in the earth, mostly abiotic. They find oil deeper than fossils ever get. Something about iron catalysts, calcium carbonates, pressure, steam, heat can create hydrocarbon gasses which migrate upwards and condense into liquid fuel oceans. And that also explains why old wells refill. Basically oil is made from steam and rock and pressure and fantastic high temperatures deep in the mantle.

And then this
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:21 PM   #337
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I would love a thorium molten salt reactor in the engine room and electric pod drives. That way, you have endless power, plenty of heat for fresh water, and propulsion power.

I doubt I will live to see it though.

Stu
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:08 AM   #338
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Now here is an interesting report from the Washington Post.


All you climate deniers take particular note!

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some
places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report
to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulate, at Bergen, Norway
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical
change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the
Arctic zone.
Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far
north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.
Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very
warm.
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones,
the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely
disappeared.
Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while
vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far
north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will
rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable.
* * * * * * * * *
I must apologize.
I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as
reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 93 years ago
This must have been caused by the Model T Ford's emissions.
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