Electric Trawler

[Nomad Willy]

Cotton,
I think we will be buying oil from the Middle East and elsewhere for some time to come. Most all people here will chose the route most cost effective for obvious reasons. Policy will be made by the bulk of consumers. Powering a trawler w electrons isn't practical but redesigning trawlers to be far more fuel efficient is practical and almost easy. Start w a sailboat hull and trawlerize it. I was actually going to do that some years ago and bought a Willard instead. A trawlerized sailboat would burn about half the fuel as my Willard and possibly less than that. Regarding the fuel efficient trawler burning far less fuel is a more practical route than trying to burn none at all. It's not like we're out of oil ... it's just less plentiful.

We may find a good alternative to oil energy before we run out of oil and how likely is anyone's guess. At this point oil is obviously still very plentiful and we need to use less of it primarily because there so many more people and those that never have used much oil are now becoming big consumers. Rightfully so too.

I have no interest in owning an electric trawler. And most here on the forum don't either. They actually like the rumbling diesel engine. Eventially the oil age will be over and electrons will be the essence of energy. But for now it's engines not motors.

As to your son there's no draft at this time. When I joined the Navy there was. But that was in 61. Tell your son to stay out of Iran and vote for people like Rand Paul.

 

[brian eiland]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]difference being for corn it takes one season and for oil it take a couple of hundred million years.

That's ONE theory , the Abiotic oil folks have a different take.
[/FONT]Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real! - Viewzone

www.viewzone.com/abioticoilx.html
Viewzone Magazine offers a look at life and humanity from different angles. Fossils From Animals And Plants Are Not Necessary For Crude Oil And Natural Gas.

The 'Abiotic Oil' Controversy - Rense
www.rense.com/general58/biot.htm


Sep 21, 2004 - The debate over oil's origin has been going on since the 19th century. From the start, there were those who contended that oil is primordial ...
Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Wikipedia
Scientific opinion on the origin of oil and gas is that all natural oil and gas deposits on Earth are fossil fuels, and are therefore not abiogenic in origin. There are a ...‎History - ‎State of current research - ‎Foundations of abiogenic theories

Thanks for bringing that up again.

I remember this subject coming on another forum a few years ago, and I never had time to read it more thoroughly. It presents some interesting thoughts, ...particularly when you consider how the traditional fossil fuel explanations fail to account for oil on other solar system entities than just Earth.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that in the history of earth at the time of the dinosaurs there was very little tree growth?
...oops it was grass that had not developed yet.

 

[bfloyd4445]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]difference being for corn it takes one season and for oil it take a couple of hundred million years.

That's ONE theory , the Abiotic oil folks have a different take.

[/FONT]
Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real! - Viewzone

www.viewzone.com/abioticoilx.html



The 'Abiotic Oil' Controversy - Rense

www.rense.com/general58/biot.htm


Sep 21, 2004 - The debate over oil's origin has been going on since the 19th century. From the start, there were those who contended that oil is primordial ...



Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin




Wikipedia


Scientific opinion on the origin of oil and gas is that all natural oil and gas deposits on Earth are fossil fuels, and are therefore not abiogenic in origin. There are a ...‎History - ‎State of current research - ‎Foundations of abiogenic theories

You have not provided any links that reference actual scientific research just speculation. Any news release without references to the actual source of the data is speculation at best without any real scientific foundation. The research that was done to prove abiogenic oil all ended in failure. If you are a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, AAAS, like I am you can access real science and see some of the actual testing that was done, the results and procedures. Here is a link to there website used by most scientists. Home | AAAS MemberCentral

 

[bfloyd4445]

Thanks for bringing that up again.

I remember this subject coming on another forum a few years ago, and I never had time to read it more thoroughly. It presents some interesting thoughts, ...particularly when you consider how the traditional fossil fuel explanations fail to account for oil on other solar system entities than just Earth.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that in the history of earth at the time of the dinosaurs there was very little tree growth?
...oops it was grass that had not developed yet.

Yes, but keep in mind the fuel we use the earth created by subduction and heat, pressure, took some some two billion years and we have burned up most of it in 100 years.
One of the factors leading to the huge size of the dino's was the very high O2 content of the atmosphere at that time which was due mostly to photosynthesis in plants. No trees no O2. Today's air is 20.6% by volume if dry, during the jurassic period of the dinosaurs the air averaged 30% oxygen thats 1/3 greater than it is today. That wouldn't have happened if there were few trees.

 

[dhmeissner]

Videos | ReGen Hybrid Electric Marine Power

Interesting links from the above page.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Videos | ReGen Hybrid Electric Marine Power

Interesting links from the above page.

great link thanks. I've been waiting for a retofit power system like this for a trawler

 

[FF]

"I have a teenage son, and I don't want him spending any time in Iran, so I do what I can to not buy oil from people who hate me."

Agree , do not purchase fuel in Europe, thats who gets the Iranian oil

 

[Art]

The restrictions in moving anything is mass/inertia and friction/resistance – vs – energy available/applied. If these restrictions can be minimized then energy needed (from any source) to provide movement is minimized. If all friction/resistance can be removed, and momentum can be initially established via energy burst, then the movement of item can become virtually perpetual… e.g. planets in space.

So… being that humans are trapped on Earth with “mass/inertia and friction/resistance – vs – energy available/applied” as an every second occurrence there is great need to establish minimized weights and reduced surface frictions/resistances as sources for power and propulsion are also improved.

 

[brian eiland]

Yes, but keep in mind the fuel we use the earth created by subduction and heat, pressure, took some some two billion years ....

Not totally convinced that this was the 'method' of fuel creation,...or that is the thesis of these alternative explanations

One of the factors leading to the huge size of the dino's was the very high O2 content of the atmosphere at that time which was due mostly to photosynthesis in plants. No trees no O2. Today's air is 20.6% by volume if dry, during the jurassic period of the dinosaurs the air averaged 30% oxygen thats 1/3 greater than it is today. That wouldn't have happened if there were few trees.

I wonder if this is true also? Are there not alternative explanations for this higher oxygen than just huge numbers of trees?

I'm just asking, as I do not know, or remember from science/nature/history shows I am always attracted to.

PS: Do the ice core histories stored at the poles support the contention that oxygen levels were that much higher?

 

[dhmeissner]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_boat

e-Tolly

 

[Art]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_boat

e-Tolly

Yummy - Tolly good Boats!

 

[what_barnacles]

Or he was wasting our time!

Impossible sir!

 

[bfloyd4445]

Not totally convinced that this was the 'method' of fuel creation,...or that is the thesis of these alternative explanations



I wonder if this is true also? Are there not alternative explanations for this higher oxygen than just huge numbers of trees?

I'm just asking, as I do not know, or remember from science/nature/history shows I am always attracted to.

PS: Do the ice core histories stored at the poles support the contention that oxygen levels were that much higher?

First of all I to am not totally convinced science has the right answers at this time regarding cude oil formation, coal formation yes, at the moment i believe it is a bit more complicated.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]O2 is highly reactive so tends to decrease in atmospheric concentration forming oxides and other compounds over time unless replenished.
The best theory is that cyanobacteria proliferated in the early fertile seas and produced copious quantities of O2 leading to the evolution of primitive animal life in the seas. Since everything try's to disburse itself evenly the high o2 in the seas began to escape into the atmosphere untill the concentration reached a level at which marine life could begin to breath air and survive. By this time many plants had colonized the land producing even more o2 creating a lush habitat for animal life to move into. This set the stage for animals to grow legs and lungs and move into this lush land of plenty. This was the beginning of the period in earths history when most of the coal formation were formed. Would take many millions of years for the plant material to be compressed into coal. With such high o2 in the atmosphere animals could grow to huge size like dragonflies six feet across. Not possible for insect to grow large because of there physiology in low concentrations of o2 like we have today. So, now dragonflies are what three or four inches across. I'm not going to go into an explanation into the physiology of insects but I will say they do not have lungs. They also do not have blood all there organs are immersed in hemolymph. Air enters there bodies through spiracles and then into the tracheal system which goes everywhere like our cardio vascular system.[/FONT]
There is tons of fossils of huge insect during this period confirming that the free oxygen in the air must have been much much higher than it is today

 

[loadmat]

Manyboats - That's an interesting input about early heavy trucking in cities being done by electric trucks - unfortunately, cattle ranches, farms, most manufacturing plants aren't located in cities and our transcon diesel railways haul roughly one third of the nation's freight. The Geologist I spoke with about oil renewing was what he told me - I'll try to find a site that supports his view. Electrical is an interesting source of power and if or when it becomes economical and reliable, I'll be right there in line Until then, current technology is fossil-based as a majority source of transportation & there's nothing wrong with diesel-electric.
I'm really interested in the idea that started this thread - maybe some startling breakthrough or invention will come of all this discussion.

 

[loadmat]

I am in error in my reply to manyboats - it is for bfloyd4445.
Cheers )

 

[markpierce]

I drive a hybrid car (Volt, which I love, btw). I'm not trying to "show the way," save the planet or save money.

You are heavily subsidized by the government and its taxpayers. Think about it. Do you feel guilty or manipulated? I feel taken advantage of.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Until such time portable energy (batteries, home nuclear reactors etc.) achieves the energy density of fossil fuels, hydrocarbon products is what we'll be using.

 

[Nomad Willy]

RT,
We're on the same page as I said that on post # 271.

And Marin likes his engines to make big noise.

 

[bfloyd4445]

I am in error in my reply to manyboats - it is for bfloyd4445.
Cheers )

Thank you sir. ..

 

[brian eiland]

First of all I to am not totally convinced science has the right answers at this time regarding cude oil formation, coal formation yes, at the moment i believe it is a bit more complicated.

That long video presentation link that I originally added to this conversation has been moved to here:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s7/crude-oil-absolute-must-see-program-22475.html

It addresses the formation/origin of the different carbon based fuels. It also suggest some very high concentrations of atmospheric CO2 at the time.

 

[Cottontop]

You are heavily subsidized by the government and its taxpayers. Think about it. Do you feel guilty or manipulated? I feel taken advantage of.

Well, if you're not the beneficiary of some government subsidy (home ownership, health care, college loans, child care, child bearing, retirement savings, solar panels, etc., etc., etc.), you're the rare American.

Subsidies for oil: how about some 4,000 dead and 30,000 wounded Americans in Iraq. There are large numbers of homeless men on the streets of our cities; a disproportionate number of whom are veterans. Do you feel guilty? I do. We all should.

This is an argument you can't win.

But it also doesn't belong in this thread. I was simply responding to an earlier post claiming that hybrid car drivers are trying to "show the way," which also didn't belong in the thread.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. mb. Apologies for re-posting your statement. After 290+ posts, I've lost track.

 

[FF]

I'm do not believe a single tea spoon of Irac oil has ever been imported to the USA.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. FF. "I'm do not believe a single tea spoon of Irac oil has ever been imported to the USA."
"The United States is the third-largest importer of Iraq's crude..." Taken from THIS article... Marcon International, Inc. - Ship Brokers & Marine Consultants - p
I strongly suggest you minimize getting your information from the "Baggers" and Faux news and have another couple of cups of coffee. Make it "high test".

 

[bfloyd4445]

Well, if you're not the beneficiary of some government subsidy (home ownership, health care, college loans, child care, child bearing, retirement savings, solar panels, etc., etc., etc.), you're the rare American.

Subsidies for oil: how about some 4,000 dead and 30,000 wounded Americans in Iraq. There are large numbers of homeless men on the streets of our cities; a disproportionate number of whom are veterans. Do you feel guilty? I do. We all should.

This is an argument you can't win.

But it also doesn't belong in this thread. I was simply responding to an earlier post claiming that hybrid car drivers are trying to "show the way," which also didn't belong in the thread.

yes it belongs here as it involves the hidden costs of electric powered vessels.

Your first comment bashing Americans I'm sure is in reference to the United States. I'll address that issue in a moment but first i wish to remind you that most South and central American countries have huge subsidies for healthcare and because the people earn very low wages recieve very little tax money to pay for the subsidies. Many SA countries recieve large grants from the USA which I'm sure helps fund national health care and the militia for many of those countries.
In the USA most people pay taxes and own or are buying homes subject to taxation and pay for there own health care. If you are an illegal or have no income you can receive subsidized healthcare but if you work at all there is usually a charge based upon your income. All states to my knowledge have property taxes both for real estate and personal property like cars boats etc. The only free ride is for new illegal immigrants and others with no income, opps, and of course for politicians.

Thank you for pointing out one of the hidden cost of oil something most choose to ignore. There are many hidden costs in everything usually associated with the end of life cost for recycling used up consumer goods. This cost is often more than the original manufacturing costs. And, like with wars all of these manmade products also have a cost to be paid in human lives lost from the toxic substances they contain that are eventually find there way into the air we breath the water we drink and the food we eat.

 

[dhmeissner]

Sorry to interrupt this interesting political thread with the topic.

Duffy Electric Boat Company - America's Electric Boat Since 1970

 

[bfloyd4445]

Sorry to interrupt this interesting political thread with the topic.

Duffy Electric Boat Company - America's Electric Boat Since 1970

Yes, Duffy a good company.

My post made no mention of political party or party policy only a generalization of overall taxation in the America's covering both North, South, and Central American.

 

[FF]

Taken from THIS article... Marcon International, Inc. - Ship Brokers & Marine Consultants - p

AHH yes we take 14% if Iracs output which with our usual annual consumption cones to ???? %.of US consumption.

OK we get a tea cup , not a tea spoon.

 

[utazo89]

Rjtrane

What do you think about this new concept for batteries? It might take few years, but when it does, will you consider it?

https://9to5mac.com/2017/03/06/iphon...l-solid-state/

 

[Chrisjs]

Just got back from Equador and Panama where I saw an advert for "seawater batteries" for use with solar power generation. See attached article. May be the future for boating??
Lithium Sea Water Batteries