Electric Outboards

[catalinajack]

Upstate NY I am familiar with especially on motorcycle and agree with you. You can be in a 55 zone then approach a town where it immediately drops to 25. Good place for cops to sit if they are in the mood to ticket. On the other hand here in CT, people reoutinely drive 75 in a 55, with relative impunity. Guess it depends on what the police care about and their priorities.

Including on the Merritt Parkway which is a country road compared to a modern interstate highway. From the lyrics of a song sung by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen, Hot Rod Lincoln.

Took a corner; sideswiped a truck,
Crossed my fingers just for luck.
My fenders was clickin' the guardrail posts.
The guy beside me was white as a ghost.

 

[Benthic2]

That's such a GREAT song!!!

 

[backinblue]

Including on the Merritt Parkway which is a country road compared to a modern interstate highway. From the lyrics of a song sung by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen, Hot Rod Lincoln.

Took a corner; sideswiped a truck,
Crossed my fingers just for luck.
My fenders was clickin' the guardrail posts.
The guy beside me was white as a ghost.

As a kid I knew all the lyics to that song and loved it. Maybe because we were all gearheads in the 70's or because I grew up near the Merritt Parkway? lol

I remember racing another car for about 10 miles on the Merritt when I was about 18. My car was not a hot rod by any menas, but probably did get up to 110 mph.

 

[Seevee]

Wifey B: I made it very clear that it wasn't all. Also, don't see politicians and liberal media having anything to do with electric outboards. I haven't read anything from them on the topic. I'm fine in accepting less gullible as a possibility, just as I am with more conservative. This isn't about "green new deal", it's about electric outboards. I wish I had something to put one on. Maybe I need to find something.

Seems like it's significantly affected by political subsidies, politicians agendas, and the attempted limits on fossil fuel. Give you money for buying electric and penalize you for using gas. Yep, very political, and hope we can change that.

 

[FF]

"Give you money for buying electric and penalize you for using gas."

I think way more money will be needed for battery cars.

Last month our house electric KW use bill was $8.00 and change,
,the delivery charge was over $40.00 .

$50.00 buys a lot of miles with either gas or diesel.

 

[backinblue]

Seems like it's significantly affected by political subsidies, politicians agendas, and the attempted limits on fossil fuel. Give you money for buying electric and penalize you for using gas. Yep, very political, and hope we can change that.

I agree. I understand that we are not suppose to discuss political issues here or at least not take sides. But when it comes to topics like electric power vs. fossil fuels, I can't see how anyone would believe that politics have nothing to do with it. Here's the thing though. Some people cheer the rising gas prices because they want everyone to drive electric cars instead. Nice theory, but if you really cared about people, you'd realize that higher gas prices hurt the lower income people the most. The people who have to drive to work every day or drive as part of their job. They live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford even the cheapest of Teslas, govt rebate or not. $50 for a fill-up is a big deal to them. The rebates go to the rich who can afford a Tesla w/o them.

Side note, yesterday morning I passed a nearly empty mall, but there were at least 8-10 Tesla owners sitting there charging. Not quite ready for prime time I would say.

 

[OldDan1943]

Okay, returning to the designated topic.... "Electric Outboards"
There is a tendency to build bigger (huge) electric outboards but, you/me/others are in the real world.
I do believe we are discussing smaller electric outboards?
So we have narrowed it down to 2 brands of outboards less than 5hp each.
Now, let's discuss weight of the motor, weight of the batteries and run time.

 

[backinblue]

Okay, returning to the designated topic.... "Electric Outboards"
There is a tendency to build bigger (huge) electric outboards but, you/me/others are in the real world.
I do believe we are discussing smaller electric outboards?
So we have narrowed it down to 2 brands of outboards less than 5hp each.
Now, let's discuss weight of the motor, weight of the batteries and run time.

We can do that. I have already said here and elsewhere, that if we are discussing ~3hp electrics for dinghies, I think eProp is superior to Torqeedo

- Looks more like a tradtional outboard
- Lower price
- More range
- Faster charge
- Single power/control connector, not multiple cords
- Battery floats
- Battery and motor separate into 2 easily handled pieces, maybe ~20 lbs ea.
- 3 shaft lengths available for small inflatables to sailboats.
- The company seems more innovative and keeps coming up with new features like wireless (bluetooth) steering and throttle. Torqeedo may have been one of the first to market, but eProp seems to be leading the path forward.

 

[Porgy]

Bluetooth? Big deal, my toothbrush has Bluetooth. Torqeedo has 80hp outboards, inboards, hybrid, pods. It looks to me like they are still leading the way. Granted, the Travel design is starting to look a bit dated and it may be they’ll cede the little motors to others.

Nothing against eP. Yes, it is in improved upon Torqeedo. The first time I saw a picture of one I thought it was an updated Torqeedo, the genetic similarity is that close. Actually, it looks like they took a Torqeedo apart and asked what would make it better and up to date? And it seems to have worked but, not exactly clean sheet cutting innovation like many of the others, including those in the videos. Backward engineering to improve a product is a tried and true and cost effective method. Their whole effort was funded or at least subsidized by the government university and made in China. Not China bashing but it keeps getting pointed out it’s cheaper than Torqeedo and I would certainly hope so.

It’s fine, just not enough there yet to make me get rid of mine and buy an eP.

 

[backinblue]

Bluetooth? Big deal, my toothbrush has Bluetooth. Torqeedo has 80hp outboards, inboards, hybrid, pods. It looks to me like they are still leading the way. Granted, the Travel design is starting to look a bit dated and it may be they’ll cede the little motors to others.

Nothing against eP. Yes, it is in improved upon Torqeedo. The first time I saw a picture of one I thought it was an updated Torqeedo, the genetic similarity is that close. Actually, it looks like they took a Torqeedo apart and asked what would make it better and up to date? And it seems to have worked but, not exactly clean sheet cutting innovation like many of the others, including those in the videos. Backward engineering to improve a product is a tried and true and cost effective method. Their whole effort was funded or at least subsidized by the government university and made in China. Not China bashing but it keeps getting pointed out it’s cheaper than Torqeedo and I would certainly hope so.

It’s fine, just not enough there yet to make me get rid of mine and buy an eP.

I'm not suggestiong anyone should switch to an eProp but if you are shopping they deserve a look. Many think Toqeedo is the only option. Speaking of innovation, there is this...

https://www.epropulsion.com/post/ep...d-as-equipment-innovation-of-the-year-winner/

 

[OldDan1943]

I'm not suggestiong anyone should switch to an eProp but if you are shopping they deserve a look. Many think Toqeedo is the only option. Speaking of innovation, there is this...

https://www.epropulsion.com/post/ep...d-as-equipment-innovation-of-the-year-winner/

I wonder the size and weight of the RIB

 

[socalrider]

Ahh... back on topic!

I agree with backinblue on the e-propulsion.

One other possibility for a light hard dinghy is the EP Carry https://www.electricpaddle.com

It's much smaller, lighter, and less powerful - more of a rowing alternative than a 2hp outboard alternative. But the weight is very appealing for the right use case.

 

[OldDan1943]

Ahh... back on topic!

I agree with backinblue on the e-propulsion.

One other possibility for a light hard dinghy is the EP Carry https://www.electricpaddle.com

It's much smaller, lighter, and less powerful - more of a rowing alternative than a 2hp outboard alternative. But the weight is very appealing for the right use case.

The motor and equipment are out of stock.

I guess they are setting in a container on the dock

 

[socalrider]

The motor and equipment are out of stock.

Not surprising... I had to wait ~3mo for my ePropulsion last spring. They are selling like hotcakes, along with everything boating-related.

 

[backinblue]

Not surprising... I had to wait ~3mo for my ePropulsion last spring. They are selling like hotcakes, along with everything boating-related.

OD, if you are buying an eProp, pay attention to the shaft lengths. I did not, I followed the dealer's advice and ordered a "short" which is actually kind of long for my inflatable. An x-short would have been better. I generally row a bit to/from shore to get in a little deeper water. If you want to buy my motor (w/o battery) I'll give you a good deal and buy a new XS, assuming the Short version fits for you.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Have we all forgotten about the basic Minn Kota and Motor Guide trolling motors? For a couple of hundred dollars you can get a 55-65 lb thrust 12v motor. Will push my 9' inflatable about 5mph. Very simple.

 

[backinblue]

Have we all forgotten about the basic Minn Kota and Motor Guide trolling motors? For a couple of hundred dollars you can get a 55-65 lb thrust 12v motor. Will push my 9' inflatable about 5mph. Very simple.

While that is true, it's not really an apples to apples comparison with the new Li -Ion powered motors. Electric trolling motors have been around forever. If I am not mistaken, they are fractional HP, so much less power and speed. Also, you are generally dealing with a lead-acid battery which is heavy, not as easy to handle or store or charge. Also you don't have the smart displays and reverse operation like a modern electric outboard. In fact, many small gas outboards don't even have reverse except spinning the motor 180.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Modern trolling motors do have electronic displays, and they have had reverse speeds (usually 2-3) for years. Not sure how they rate re hp, but 55-65 lbs of thrust is pretty powerful. And you can run them with Li-Po batteries if you want. Basic lead acid deep cycle batteries will run all day on a fishing trip. Now, I get it that they aren't as sexy as the new fancy electric ones, but are also a fraction of the price.

 

[FWT]

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/electric-outboard-motor-we-test-12-options-81853

New article, for what its worth

 

[FWT]

That says ePropulsion has no reverse. You spin it backward. How does that work out?

 

[backinblue]

Modern trolling motors do have electronic displays, and they have had reverse speeds (usually 2-3) for years. Not sure how they rate re hp, but 55-65 lbs of thrust is pretty powerful. And you can run them with Li-Po batteries if you want. Basic lead acid deep cycle batteries will run all day on a fishing trip. Now, I get it that they aren't as sexy as the new fancy electric ones, but are also a fraction of the price.

Ok I won't dispute anything you are saying however you are still getting a fraction of the power for a fraction of the price. Also my wife can single hand the battery when I hand it to her, not the case with a car battery.

 

[FF]

Great basic article , tho the prices seem really high.

Wonder if Alibaba or some other direct Chinese retailer couldn't reduce price by half or 2/3?

 

[ranger58sb]

Also, you are generally dealing with a lead-acid battery which is heavy, not as easy to handle or store or charge.

Also my wife can single hand the battery when I hand it to her, not the case with a car battery.

It'd be easy enough to use a small/lightweight LiFePO4 battery pack instead of a bigger lead-acid thing.

A 48V system with big capacity -- that I've looked at with the idea of a 20-hp electric outboard -- would be significantly expensive, but a smaller capacity LiFePO4 battery as for a 5-hp (or less) trolling motor could probably be much more affordable and cost-effective.

-Chris

 

[backinblue]

That says ePropulsion has no reverse. You spin it backward. How does that work out?

It doesn't actually say no reverse, but anyway that is not true. Reverse is a great feature. You simply twist throttle grip in 1 direction for forward and the other direction for reverse. There is a stop position in the middle. No rotating the motor for reverse is necessary.

 

[backinblue]

It'd be easy enough to use a small/lightweight LiFePO4 battery pack instead of a bigger lead-acid thing.

A 48V system with big capacity -- that I've looked at with the idea of a 20-hp electric outboard -- would be significantly expensive, but a smaller capacity LiFePO4 battery as for a 5-hp (or less) trolling motor could probably be much more affordable and cost-effective.

-Chris

Not saying it couldn't be done but why go through the trouble and expense when you can buy one that is already designed and complete in 1 package? Also, as far as I know, electric trolling motors are less than 1 HP. I also think they are mostly 12V. Takes a lot of current at 12V generate HP.

For example:

Trolling motors are rated in pounds of thrust. As a rule of thumb 72 to 75lb. of thrust roughly equals one horsepower or 746W of electrical power. A typical 12V motor that draws 60A consumes approximately 720W. Newport Vessels NV-Series 55lb Thrust Trolling Motor is rated as 624 watts at the highest forward speed and so 624/746 = 0.84 and would be roughly equivalent to a 0.84 horsepower motor.

 

[ABfish]

Have we all forgotten about the basic Minn Kota and Motor Guide trolling motors? For a couple of hundred dollars you can get a 55-65 lb thrust 12v motor. Will push my 9' inflatable about 5mph. Very simple.

I use a 60 lbs. thrust Minn Kota, which equates to slightly less than 1 hp. It pushes my inflatable dinghy with no issues. Multiple forward speeds with reverse. It's light and cheap. I bought the motor for $75 used and a new Group 27 lead acid battery for $150.


Granted, the lead acid battery is heavy at around 55 lbs. If I wanted to spent around $600 for a lithium battery, the battery weight would drop to 17 lbs.

For less than $1,000, you could buy a new Minn Kota Rip Tide and a 54 AH lithium battery.

 

[ranger58sb]

Not saying it couldn't be done but why go through the trouble and expensive when you can buy one that is already designed and complete in 1 package? Also, as far as I know, electric trolling motors are less than 1 HP. I also think they are mostly 12V. Takes a lot of current at 12V generate HP.

For example:

I haven't compared efficiency, and haven't actually been paying much attention to that segment of the market. I just know it exists, and is likely much less expensive than similarly sized Torqueedo units. Some are 24V and some are 36V, dunno much else...

-Chris

 

[backinblue]

I agree that if your main objective is to get the cheapest electric motor to push your dinghy, there are options. When buying boating equipment, lowest possible price is rarely the best solution.

 

[socalrider]

[deleted]

 

[FWT]

It doesn't actually say no reverse, but anyway that is not true. Reverse is a great feature. You simply twist throttle grip in 1 direction for forward and the other direction for reverse. There is a stop position in the middle. No rotating the motor for reverse is necessary.

Thanks. That's what I thought until the article said otherwise. Confused me.