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Old 12-13-2022, 05:00 PM   #141
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I agree with pacopico. We never put the pistons in an oil bath on Porsches.
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Old 12-14-2022, 01:25 PM   #142
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Damper plate replacement

Another little surprise. I disassembled the damper plate, and the aluminum part disintegrated from the galvanic corrosion.


Yanmar schematics do not have this damper plate shown and ZF HSW800A3 gearbox i have, does not show that plate so it's something in between with no part number mentioned anywhere.

If anyone is looking for a replacement, found a matching plate "Vulkan Marine Damper Plate 1KT3110008 Cummins Deere Boat Diesel Engine ZF" and will see if it fits when it arrives.
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Old 12-23-2022, 07:23 PM   #143
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Injector Testing

Injector Testing

ok, i assembled all 6 injectors and tested them with the injector tester ( https://www.vevor.com/injector-nozzl...p_010783068030 ) to decide how to proceed.

This was a bit tricky, the manual is unreadable and I could not find clear instructions on how that tester works on Youtube. I almost returned it because i thought it was broken.



so here is how it works:

1. Assembling is pretty straightforward but I unscrewed the diesel container and removed a large metal shaving from the thread. Someone on youtube recommended a full disassembly for cleaning but i did not get that far.

2. Put clear diesel in the bowl and pump it thru the unit until it's coming out clear without anything screwed to the end. Took half a cap for me.
* A large knob on the body has to be fully opened.

3. Screw your injector to the end of the testing pipe (there are 2 different connector tubes in the box), one worked for my injectors.

4. Tighten the large knob on the vertical body all the way and then take it back a couple of degrees. - this is important, if it's too tight or too loose - you can not build pressure.



5. Now, when you pump the handle, you will be building pressure in the system until the injector pops/injects



Note the maximum pressure at which that happened. For 6LY injectors, it has to be between 290 and 300 kg/cm2 or 4120 - 4267 PSI
If they release too soon, you need to add a thicker shim, if it fires too late, you need to remove a shim.

6. Note how it releases. It's hard to explain, but it should not "spray" like a spray bottle but rather "shoot" more like a gun.

7. Check the pattern to ensure all five streams are the same and uniform.

8. Next, pump the pressure to ~300 PSI and tighten the large knob to keep the injector pressurized.
The nozzle should not leak fuel.



A few observations:
  • Needle size was different in at least 2 nozzles because those needles did not fit into the other 4
  • I had different sizes of shims from 0.15 to 0.30 mm in thickness.
  • I found that on some injectors, shims have a chamfer and must be installed with that chamfer facing the nozzle. The manual says it could lead to damage or other problems if installed incorrectly. i could not find any chamfer on my shims but check yours just in case.
  • The nozzle cup has to be tightened to a specific torque (39.2-44.1 Mm, which is 28.9 to 32.5 ft lb)

One more reminder not to mix any internal parts of those injectors when you take them apart for cleaning.

All 6 of my injectors had bad spray patterns, a few leaked and have weak long spray instead of fast fire and 4 of 6 had a wrong release pressure. Maybe that could be fixed by cleaning the nozzles some more with the nozzle cleaning wire and trying to adjust the shims.
But i was placing an order for the rest of the spare parts so i included all 6 new nozzles (they come with the needles) and 6 set of shims and will have a shop assemble them.
At least i know now for sure this expense is justified
Attached Thumbnails
injector_test-1.jpg   injector_test-2.jpg   injector_test-3.jpg   injector_test-4.jpg  
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Old 12-23-2022, 10:17 PM   #144
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Interesting. With testing equipment you pretty much get what you pay for.
I've paid more than that for a dial caliper.
It would be good to test your newly rebuilt injectors to 'calibrate' the pressure gauge.
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Old 12-24-2022, 06:49 AM   #145
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So, you bought the tester to do a pass/fail test and are going to have the shop do the rebuilding of them? That sounds pretty reasonable for the $$ your putting into the engine.

I agree I'd probably put a rebuilt injector on your tester to do a before and after comparison to your previous results just for fun.
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Old 01-14-2023, 08:40 AM   #146
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Talking Rebuild Kit

Rebuild Kit

Xmas in January! 🎄

My "Yanmar 6LYA-STP diesel engine rebuild kit" + some extra parts just arrived directly from Japan! All genuine Yanmar parts and at 1/2 the price compared to the best US suppliers and 1/3 compared to greedy Canadian suppliers.
A saved $7000 is a made $7000! 💰



New sleeves, pistons, bearings, valves, injector nozzles, gaskets, o-rings, and other misc parts.

I've got a quote from multiple suppliers from Asia. The one I used was the only one that gave me two options: genuine or OEM
the rest was trying to push OEM parts on me, and then i asked several times to confirm if those were genuine, the answer always was - "those parts are for Yanmar 6LYA-STP" and they tried to screw me on shipping asking $1500 to ship 3 pretty small boxes to Canada. Sneaky bastards. I paid $380 for shipping of everything.

My supplier has ~50% of the parts offered as OEM versions at 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of genuine parts.

As an example,
EXHAUST VALVE, 119593-11110: $70 for genuine Yanmar and $20 OEM,
(the same part from toadmarinesupply.com is $113)
and there are 6 of them.

I opted for all genuine, but going with OEM would cut the cost by ~20% (the expensive parts like pistons and injector nozzles do not have OEM options but sleeves, most gaskets, o-rings, and valves do). As a community service, I did order one OEM version of each valve and sleeve to compare to the genuine if somebody wants to save some money. I will post the comparison later if anybody is interested.

I attached "Rebuild kit.txt" with the list of parts - just rename it from .txt to .csv to open in excel as a table.
Before you use that list "as-is", please check the part numbers and qty's against Yanmar part diagrams for your specific engine.
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File Type: txt Rebuild kit.txt (3.7 KB, 5 views)
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Old 01-14-2023, 08:56 AM   #147
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An impressive kit, Waterant. Looking forward to following your project.

Please help me understand why you differentiate "OEM" from "genuine." As I understand it, OEM ("original equipment manufacturer") is in fact genuine to the product as originally manufactured. Anything else would be identified as an aftermarket part, no?
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Old 01-14-2023, 09:19 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissboat View Post
As I understand it, OEM ("original equipment manufacturer") is in fact genuine to the product as originally manufactured. Anything else would be identified as an aftermarket part, no?
That's what I thought but a quick look at the sample OEM valve I've got show some difference from genuine one. I'll measure and weight both to compare.

Another example, I was quoted $15 per "OEM" cylinder liner/sleeve 119171-01101 while genuine is $278 from US suppliers and $170 from Asia.
It's just hard to believe it would be the same sleeve for $15 while they do claim it to be OEM.

A sample OEM sleeve I ordered from my supplier is $50. I'll compare to the genuine when I get it (they did not have it in stock). At least for $50 there is chance it will be from the same factory and same material but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I guess they could call it "OEM" but that does not mean it came from the same factory or even from the same material
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Old 01-14-2023, 10:30 AM   #149
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Lightbulb

I've got a few messages to share the contact of the supplier I used.
I guess saving $ on Yanmar parts hit the sweet spot.

Some general notes on working with Asian suppliers:

- This is a wholesale supplier and does not like selling in retail or small orders. it will be beneficial for everyone if you send a list of multiple parts you need at once. if you just need one or two parts, check https://shop.toadmarinesupply.com/ - they have the best Yanmar parts prices in US I could find, and shipping will be much less expensive, and no worries about custom clearance.

By the way, my custom clearance was an easy process. The shipment was sent by DHL and UPS - their custom department just emailed with the message with the payment button and i paid taxes by credit card before the shipment arrived, so it was delivered to my house as soon as it came to the local warehouse.

- Tell my contact you've got his info from Anton Pachkine so he knows we are part of the same community that will work with him if we are happy with his service. no, i do not get any "referral fees" from him (maybe I should? ).

- I already told him I'll send referrals because he was quick to reply to any inquiries (considering the time difference), shipping was fast, and he did not try to screw me on shipping or push "OEM" on me like many others i contacted. They have warehouses in China and Japan. I've got 2 boxes from Japan and 1 from China.

- I would recommend dealing with and paying those Asian suppliers thru Alibaba, not directly. There is a small surcharge if you pay via Alibaba, but it is worth it for extra protection. Alibaba has trade assurance, and it will be easier to resolve any issues.

Hope this helps.
Send me PM if you need the contact details.
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Old 01-14-2023, 03:58 PM   #150
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Sounds like a new and creative use of the term OEM, meaning “it fits your engine”. Good job sorting out the difference in their terminology.
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Old 01-24-2023, 08:37 PM   #151
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Genuine vs OEM

Just an update on this rebuild.

The camshaft is in the shop, waiting to be polished.

The crankshaft had a couple of main channels damaged by the corrosion. The shop suggested grinding 0.5mm out to remove those imperfections. There are just a few dips, and one option was to polish and use them as is, but the machinist said those dips would eat new main bearings much faster than a perfectly smooth surface, so i opted for grinding and ordered a new 0.5 US main bearings. It's kind of scary. What if they grind too much? i guess i have to trust other people with my things at some point. There is one more size for main bearings (1.00 US) but i really do not want to order another set.

New sleeves are in the cylinders. I cleaned the sleeves and cylinders with Varsol and brake cleaner until the towels came out clean. I put the sleeves into the freezer overnight and installed them the next morning without much force. I will measure the inside diameters and protrusion to see if they match the specs in the next few days.

Assembled, tested and adjusted injectors came from the shop. At first, they scared me, claiming many Yanmar parts from Asia are fake even if they appear in the original packaging and are sealed. It would be a huge bummer, but later they confirmed new nozzles are genuine Yanmar, so this is good news.

I compared Genuine and "OEM" exhaust valves to see if OEM is truly the same part from the same factory but without Yanmar packaging.
.. short answer - they are not.

Price from this supplier:
119593-11110, EXHAUST VALVE
Genuine from US supplier: $123
Genuine from Asian supplier: $70
OEM from Asian supplier: $20

And there are 6 of them in each engine.
The similar difference for intake valves so, if OEM is usable, it will save a few $$ on the rebuild.

Packaging:


Original:


OEM:


Genuine:


Original:


OEM:


Genuine:


Side view (genuine is on the right):


Front view (genuine is on the right):


so, the OEM is not the same as genuine, and the difference is enough for me not to mess with OEM, but it may work fine with significant cost savings.

I hope it helps someone.
Attached Thumbnails
packaging.jpg   original-weight.jpg   OEM-weight.jpg   Genuine-weight.jpg   original_shaft.jpg  

oem_shaft.jpg   yanmar_shaft.jpg   side_view.jpg   front_view.jpg  
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Old 01-24-2023, 11:38 PM   #152
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When it comes to valves, metallurgy is just as important as dimension, IMO.
I would trust the Yanmars most for that reason.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:39 AM   #153
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I dated a metallurgical engineer. My view of these things is much different than before. It matters.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:19 AM   #154
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Quote:
The crankshaft had a couple of main channels damaged by the corrosion. The shop suggested grinding 0.5mm out to remove those imperfections. There are just a few dips, and one option was to polish and use them as is, but the machinist said those dips would eat new main bearings much faster than a perfectly smooth surface, so i opted for grinding and ordered a new 0.5 US main bearings. It's kind of scary. What if they grind too much? i guess i have to trust other people with my things at some point. There is one more size for main bearings (1.00 US) but i really do not want to order another set.
I'd be concerned and would question them regarding heat treat. Not from getting the crankshaft too hot but from them grinding into the transition zone.
I have seen a couple of failures in older Perkins diesels from this. All were around 100 ish hours.
I have considerable experience with heat treating automotive camshaft journals and this is similar depending upon how it was originally heat treated.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:31 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard View Post
I'd be concerned and would question them regarding heat treat. Not from getting the crankshaft too hot but from them grinding into the transition zone.
I have seen a couple of failures in older Perkins diesels from this. All were around 100 ish hours.
I have considerable experience with heat treating automotive camshaft journals and this is similar depending upon how it was originally heat treated.

Isn't this sort of re-grind routinely done on crankshafts? I know I've had it done numerous times.
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Old 01-28-2023, 12:08 PM   #156
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Hopefully the shop does a hardness test to determine if the journals are hardened or not before machining.

Hardened cranks in the past were typically found on high performance engines.

It is much more common on modern engines nowadays.
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Old 01-28-2023, 12:13 PM   #157
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It is much more common on modern engines nowadays.
Modern engines are all high performance! 100 HP/litre displacement is common now in cars. That was unimaginable not that long ago.
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Old 01-28-2023, 12:22 PM   #158
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I would never save money on knock off internal parts unless forced to do so. Dropped valve has taken out many engines . Some beyond repair
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Old 01-28-2023, 01:02 PM   #159
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You're not going to find a crank where the journals aren't hardened
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Old 01-28-2023, 01:51 PM   #160
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Cast iron cranks found in older engines work harden from the machining and grinding of journals, so were not commonly hardened in the production process.

Forged (and fabricated cranks) require hardening. Most are done with induction treatment. Generally, induction hardening has adequate depth for regrinding and polishing journals. Under 0.020" probably not a concern.

I've never rebuilt an engine with a forged crank. Nodular cast was the fanciest I've seen (Old English sports cars). But have overseen regrinding of journals (not crankshafts) and subsequent hardness testing in industrial environments. Have a pretty good understanding of heat treating and spent a fair amount of money annealing metal (PWHT), but that said, not near as much hardening metal.
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