Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-30-2022, 07:39 PM   #1
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
DD 6V92TA wonít start

Hello everyone, cry for help from the Netherlands. I’m not a mechanic… I recently bought a Mondomarine Arrow 50 with rebuilt twin Detroits 6V92. Engines hadn’t run in over 5 years, possibly longer.

The Starboard engine fired up right away. Runs fine, but high rpm in neutral (1500). As soon as I put the engine in gear the rpm goes to a steady 600 rpm (could this be the injectors?).

Bigger problem is the Port engine. It will not start. As soon as I crank the engine, blue smoke comes out of the turbo intake… No smoke or cooling water coming out of the exhaust while cranking… Fuel pump and fuel lines checked ok. Turbo as well. Had a mechanic look at the engine but he couldn’t figure it out. Does anybody have an idea what could be wrong? Injectors here as well? Exhaust blocked?

Appreciate the help forum members. Big thank you in advance from across the pond.

Andre
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2022, 08:06 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
City: Ft Myers
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 59
Detroit

Just a stab in the dark, but these engines will actually run backwards, causing smoke to come out the intake, so check it is turning the right way.

Also, there is an emergency shut down flap in front of the blower in case the rack gets stuck (a DD fault because of the way the injection system is designed) so check that. Once it is tripped, you have to reset it on the engine, pushing the cable back down doesn't do it.

Sounds like the other engine has some kind of fuel problem too like a leaky injector causing higher idle, they have also been known to run on the oil leaking from a leaky turbo, so the shut down flaps are the first thing I check to make sure they are operational when I see a DD engine.

Love their sound!!!
Sleeping Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2022, 08:23 PM   #3
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,736
You need someone that knows Detroits, not the average marina mechanic. They have no idea what makes it run. Maybe someone that knows old diesels with mechanical injectors. The fuel is constantly circulated thru the system including the injectors. The injector has a piston that makes the high pressure needed for combustion. The fuel is an essential part of the cooling of the injector tip.

Before starting a long sitting 2 cycle Detroit, remove the valve covers and operate the linkage by hand to verify the injectors are working and not stuck. The injectors are controlled by the governor. When you move the throttle, you're actually moving the governor setting. From the other side of the world, I'd say look at the governor on the st'bd engine. Get a service manual, you can find them on ebay.

If the port engine has a block heater, turn it on for a few hours. Or find a way to heat the engine. Some rings contract when sitting for long periods and don't contact the sleeves well until the engine starts again. If you have fuel to the injectors, it sounds like poor compression.
Normally if a Detroit has fuel and the temperature is above freezing, they will start and then run for a couple decades. When the engine is cranking, the fuel pump is circulating fuel thru the filters, lines and injectors. It's self bleeding, but you could have started with empty fuel lines. Verify you have fuel at the injectors.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2022, 09:09 PM   #4
Guru
 
AlanT's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Vessel Name: MoonShadow
Vessel Model: Wendon Skylounge 72'
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
You need someone that knows Detroits, not the average marina mechanic. They have no idea what makes it run. Maybe someone that knows old diesels with mechanical injectors. The fuel is constantly circulated thru the system including the injectors. The injector has a piston that makes the high pressure needed for combustion. The fuel is an essential part of the cooling of the injector tip.

Before starting a long sitting 2 cycle Detroit, remove the valve covers and operate the linkage by hand to verify the injectors are working and not stuck. The injectors are controlled by the governor. When you move the throttle, you're actually moving the governor setting. From the other side of the world, I'd say look at the governor on the st'bd engine. Get a service manual, you can find them on ebay.

If the port engine has a block heater, turn it on for a few hours. Or find a way to heat the engine. Some rings contract when sitting for long periods and don't contact the sleeves well until the engine starts again. If you have fuel to the injectors, it sounds like poor compression.
Normally if a Detroit has fuel and the temperature is above freezing, they will start and then run for a couple decades. When the engine is cranking, the fuel pump is circulating fuel thru the filters, lines and injectors. It's self bleeding, but you could have started with empty fuel lines. Verify you have fuel at the injectors.
This man knows his DDs.
AlanT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2022, 11:31 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,681
Welcome to TF, Jabba. I have also taken the liberty of moving your thread into the most relevant section of the forum, so it gets the best exposure, and therefore, hopefully, the best possible replies.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 02:41 AM   #6
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
You need someone that knows Detroits, not the average marina mechanic. They have no idea what makes it run. Maybe someone that knows old diesels with mechanical injectors. The fuel is constantly circulated thru the system including the injectors. The injector has a piston that makes the high pressure needed for combustion. The fuel is an essential part of the cooling of the injector tip.

Before starting a long sitting 2 cycle Detroit, remove the valve covers and operate the linkage by hand to verify the injectors are working and not stuck. The injectors are controlled by the governor. When you move the throttle, you're actually moving the governor setting. From the other side of the world, I'd say look at the governor on the st'bd engine. Get a service manual, you can find them on ebay.

If the port engine has a block heater, turn it on for a few hours. Or find a way to heat the engine. Some rings contract when sitting for long periods and don't contact the sleeves well until the engine starts again. If you have fuel to the injectors, it sounds like poor compression.
Normally if a Detroit has fuel and the temperature is above freezing, they will start and then run for a couple decades. When the engine is cranking, the fuel pump is circulating fuel thru the filters, lines and injectors. It's self bleeding, but you could have started with empty fuel lines. Verify you have fuel at the injectors.
Many thanks Lepke, Iíll follow your advice and have a DD specialist look at the engines.
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 02:50 AM   #7
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
Sleeping Bear,

I actually mentioned to the mechanic that it looked liked the engine was turning the wrong way (smoke out of the inlet, no cooling water or smoke from the exhaust) and we heard a lot of ‘bubbling’ water at the ‘cooling water intake location’ during cranking…

This was after we took the Starboard starter engine (Port engine had faulty starter motor) and put it on the Port engine.

Could this really be? Like I said, I asked the mechanic, but he said that was impossible. How can I figure this out (again, I’m not a mechanic).

Andre
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 07:50 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
City: Cedar City
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
The above post makes it highly LIKELY that the starter motor is the wrong one,, you may have COUNTER ROTATING engines so the starter motors won't be the same..>>>Dan ( Your mechanic is nuts,, Detroit powered boats were commonly fitted with counter rotating engines.)
utclmjmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 08:08 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,367
It is possible that one of your engines is reverse rotation. If that's the case, then with the starter swapped from the other engine, it will actually be turning backwards from its intended direction.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 09:02 AM   #10
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
Tx for all the great advice🙏🏽 Hope we didnít mess up anything by turning the engine the wrong way. Iíll be checking on the cw/ccw of the starters when I get to the boat. Keep you posted, thank you all again from Holland👌🏽
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 09:51 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: Cedar City
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
In some cases,, running a two stroke DD backwards CAN damage valves..>>>Dan
utclmjmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 09:55 AM   #12
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
Let’s hope for the best����
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 09:58 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
City: Cedar City
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
As to post #2,, The DD 92 series did not have the shut-down flapper arrangement installed.. That went out with the 71 series engines.>>>Dan
utclmjmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 11:21 AM   #14
Member
 
Jabba's Avatar
 
City: Cuijk
Vessel Model: Mondomarine Arrow 50
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
This is the engine set-up. Donít know if this points to the engines being counter-rotating?
Attached Thumbnails
2DE878EA-C08D-4418-A824-1A2007FBC2B8.jpg  
Jabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2022, 01:17 PM   #15
Veteran Member
 
City: Cedar City
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
All the changes are internal,, many times the info you seek is on the valve covers,, but may have been lost over time.. You can see the engine rotation at the front pully's with the engines running..>>>Dan
utclmjmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2022, 02:53 AM   #16
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,736
Modern engines control the rotation in the transmissions. Older Detroits and others had engines that ran in the opposite direction for twin installations. But engines setup for one direction won't run in the opposite direction. Hydraulic transmission ended the need for opposite turning engines.

Even older engines had levers to change the cam position to reverse the engine direction, had no transmission, and were directly connected to the shaft. They were air starting, air was injected into the cylinders by a special valve that turned the engine over until the diesel ignited. WWII subs, locomotives, etc., used this method of starting.

By the time the DD 92 series were made, hydraulic transmissions had been around for decades. I've never seen or heard of a left hand 92.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2022, 06:34 AM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,623
RH and LH cranks...


https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...FBDRDHoECAwQAQ
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2022, 07:17 AM   #18
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Modern engines control the rotation in the transmissions. Older Detroits and others had engines that ran in the opposite direction for twin installations. But engines setup for one direction won't run in the opposite direction. Hydraulic transmission ended the need for opposite turning engines.

Even older engines had levers to change the cam position to reverse the engine direction, had no transmission, and were directly connected to the shaft. They were air starting, air was injected into the cylinders by a special valve that turned the engine over until the diesel ignited. WWII subs, locomotives, etc., used this method of starting.

By the time the DD 92 series were made, hydraulic transmissions had been around for decades. I've never seen or heard of a left hand 92.

Even with hydraulic transmissions, not all are meant to handle counter rotation. Early hydraulic Paragons are directional IIRC. Non-CR2 Velvet Drives definitely are (gearing is slightly different in reverse and the reverse clutches are weaker, so they're fwd/rev rather than just an A and B direction).

Modern stuff will all handle counter rotation, but up through the 80s, only some transmissions did. So counter rotating engines were still seen in some applications. Reverse rotation 92 series were probably uncommon as there were transmission choices that didn't require it by then, but from a little searching, it looks like they were available in reverse rotation.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2022, 09:20 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
City: Cedar City
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
One who hasn't seen a left hand Detroit has never seen a GMC bus and many motorhomes with the 92 series DD..>>>Dan
utclmjmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2022, 10:00 AM   #20
TF Site Team
 
slowgoesit's Avatar
 
City: Puget Sound
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by utclmjmper View Post
As to post #2,, The DD 92 series did not have the shut-down flapper arrangement installed.. That went out with the 71 series engines.>>>Dan

Interesting, the 1984 Hatteras on our dock has DDV92's and it definitely DOES have the shut-down flappers . . . I suppose they could have been added after market, but I highly doubt it. . . . And a tripped flapper was the reason the new owner couldn't get the left engine started, until it was reset . . .
__________________
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
slowgoesit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012