|
|
05-31-2018, 07:04 AM
|
#1
|
Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
|
Starting Generator After 4 Years Idle
Our 12.5 Westerbeke (c. 1987) hasn’t been started in almost four years because I allowed all the other upgrades to distract me and because we haven’t been away from shore power overnight. I did change the oil before laying it up (but will do so again before we start using it regularly). Besides that and a new impeller, what should I do or look for when firing up? There is also an issue about proper ground connections that I have to research.
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 11:28 AM
|
#2
|
Guru
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,023
|
Gas/diesel? They sold both in 12.5kw.
Diesel - if the fuel system remained closed it will probably start w/o problems. If you have some type of engine heater, I'd run that for an hour. You could check for air in the fuel at the injector pump bleed port. I wouldn't change oil until it been run at operating temp for some time. Then you get all the accumulated water flushed out with the oil change.
I've started a lot of long sitting diesels, some mothballed and some not. 90% start w/o problems. The ones with problems usually have air in the fuel or it's a really cold engine. Pistons don't usually stick in diesels. Rings tend to loose some of their sealing ability when sitting for long periods, especially in cold winters. So pre warming the engine helps.
Gas - you'll be lucky if the rings aren't stuck to the cylinders or the carb isn't gummed up.
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 11:37 AM
|
#3
|
Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
|
Bar it over several turns before trying a start. Not uncommon for injection pump plungers to varnish up and stick. If hard to bar over, don't force.
If it turns over ok, give 'er a go.
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 07:49 PM
|
#4
|
Guru
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
|
I would take the injectors out and flood the cylinders with seafoam spray, wait a few hours flood them again, and then spin it over with the starter to get some oil pressure going. The excess seafoam will squirt out of the injector ports so cover them with a towel.
Then fire it on up.
I would also replace the raw water hoses considering what might have taken up residence in the past years...
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 09:48 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
City: PNW/Seattle-ish
Vessel Name: M/V Peter Iredale ;)
Vessel Model: rusting hulk
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 128
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles
I would take the injectors out and flood the cylinders with seafoam spray, wait a few hours flood them again, and then spin it over with the starter to get some oil pressure going. The excess seafoam will squirt out of the injector ports so cover them with a towel.
Then fire it on up.
I would also replace the raw water hoses considering what might have taken up residence in the past years...
|
This is, if within your mechanical ability, very smart. Personally I would use Chemtool B-12 for a shorter period (it is more harsh, but thus more effective) but otherwise the same procedure. IME the Seafoam is OK, but the Chemtool would also get at gunk on the rings the Seafoam won’t touch, and do it in less time.
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 10:49 PM
|
#6
|
Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
|
And if you do take the above advice, make sure the fuel is shut off!
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
|
|
|
05-31-2018, 11:15 PM
|
#7
|
Guru
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12,569
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilitas
This is, if within your mechanical ability, very smart. Personally I would use Chemtool B-12 for a shorter period (it is more harsh, but thus more effective) but otherwise the same procedure. IME the Seafoam is OK, but the Chemtool would also get at gunk on the rings the Seafoam won’t touch, and do it in less time.
|
Yes - Seafoam is OK. Chemtool is very aggressive. I use both at different times for different reasons.
|
|
|
06-01-2018, 10:15 PM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
|
Mine sat for 8 years after 10 years hard living in the Caribbean, same genny too.
When you do run it, throw the breaker so it doesnt energize anything for a couple run cycles. Let the generator end spin without a load so the bearing can "decrust" a bit before loading it.
Make real sure the coolant is flowing, mine was stopped up completely after running for a couple hours. The exhaust manifold plugged up solid from what looked like salt crystals. Probably just a desperate move of the PO, but you never know.
By the way, they love straight 40 wt rotella. The engine runs so much quieter.
|
|
|
06-02-2018, 06:00 AM
|
#9
|
Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
|
Thanks, all. I did replace the exhaust manifold three years ago . . . and the oil before it was stored for what I thought would be a season. The hoses look good and the impeller is new. The heat exchanger tubes are reasonably open, but could probably use boiling or barnacle buster.
I’ve never had the injectors out, but if it’s straightforward, I’m can probably manage. I need to read up on Seafoam and Chemtool to see if they’re going to be necessary.
|
|
|
06-02-2018, 07:33 AM
|
#10
|
Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
|
I see no need in pulling injectors and putting any magic fluid in. Just bar it over a few turns and if it rolls over smoothly, give it a start.
I've started scores of engines that have sat for years. These little gennie engines are TOUGH. Bearings still have a film of oil on them. If injection hardware needs attention, barring over will tell you by hitting a hard spot. If no hard spot in barring, you won't damage anything with the starter.
Pretty good chance it will kick right over like you shut it down yesterday. If not, then go tearing into things.
|
|
|
06-03-2018, 10:22 AM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
City: Toronto ON
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 128
|
I'm with Ski.
Bar it over and give it a twirl with the gen breakers off, no load.
RB
|
|
|
06-03-2018, 11:31 AM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Stuart FL
Vessel Name: Lucky Lucky
Vessel Model: Pacific Mariner 65
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,760
|
How do you "bar it over?" I assume it is some sort of breaker bar on the flywheel. How do you attach it?
__________________
Howard
Lucky Lucky
Stuart, FL
|
|
|
06-03-2018, 12:12 PM
|
#13
|
Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
|
Socket wrench on crankshaft pulley bolt. "Barring" as a term comes from big engines where you did use a prybar to roll it prior to start. Little engines put a wrench on crank bolt.
|
|
|
06-03-2018, 12:36 PM
|
#14
|
Guru
City: Stuart FL
Vessel Name: Lucky Lucky
Vessel Model: Pacific Mariner 65
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,760
|
Thanks Ski.
__________________
Howard
Lucky Lucky
Stuart, FL
|
|
|
06-19-2018, 03:42 PM
|
#15
|
Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
|
So, today was the day. After barring it over, per Ski, I installed the starter cables, checked the oil and impeller, topped off the coolant and replaced the fuel filter. It started immediately . . . and then stalled after 10 seconds. Did that several more times, finally refusing to start at all until it rested a few minutes. Then the cycle repeated. The gauge showed good oil pressure and water was flowing from the exhaust. Fuel is new, clean and prefiltered. I suspect a sensor (it’s a 4-cyl Westerbeke 12.5-614 circa 1987).
A guy who works on diesels suggested jumping the wires on the oil pressure, exhaust and any other sensors to isolate the problem. Does that sound like a reasonable approach?
|
|
|
06-19-2018, 06:45 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
City: St James City/Punta Gorda
Vessel Name: Charlie Noble
Vessel Model: 32 Nordic Tug
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 424
|
Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke
Gas/diesel? They sold both in 12.5kw.
Diesel - if the fuel system remained closed it will probably start w/o problems. If you have some type of engine heater, I'd run that for an hour. You could check for air in the fuel at the injector pump bleed port. I wouldn't change oil until it been run at operating temp for some time. Then you get all the accumulated water flushed out with the oil change.
I've started a lot of long sitting diesels, some mothballed and some not. 90% start w/o problems. The ones with problems usually have air in the fuel or it's a really cold engine. Pistons don't usually stick in diesels. Rings tend to loose some of their sealing ability when sitting for long periods, especially in cold winters. So pre warming the engine helps.
Gas - you'll be lucky if the rings aren't stuck to the cylinders or the carb isn't gummed up.
|
That sounds like air in the fuel lines or filters(especially after you just replaced the fuel filter), pump it up and bleed it out at the injector pump.
__________________
The best way to find out is get her out on the ocean, because if anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there.
"Captain Ron"
|
|
|
06-19-2018, 09:51 PM
|
#17
|
Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
|
Thanks. This model Westerbekes is supposed to have a self-bleeding fuel system, but I may have not held the pre-heat switch on long enough to fully bleed it. Also, failing to hold the pre-heat switch for a few seconds after starting can cause it to shut down from low oil pressure. Still pondering.
|
|
|
06-19-2018, 10:37 PM
|
#18
|
TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99
Thanks. This model Westerbekes is supposed to have a self-bleeding fuel system, but I may have not held the pre-heat switch on long enough to fully bleed it. Also, failing to hold the pre-heat switch for a few seconds after starting can cause it to shut down from low oil pressure. Still pondering.
|
My WB won't run until the oil pressure is consistently high enough to turn off the "low oil pressure" sensor. It is controlled by the pre-heat switch, so the routine is to pre-heat for 10 to 15 secs, lift the start switch and hold it up until the oil pressure has built enough to pass the set point on the low pressure switch, then release both the pre-heat and the start. That takes about another 7 to 10 seconds.
__________________
Keith
|
|
|
06-20-2018, 05:33 AM
|
#19
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
Unless your fuel lines are ultra long...after a few starts it should be self bled.
I would jumper the 3 shutdown sensors to immediately eliminate that possibility and check the connections at the fuel solenoid too. Both times I had similar symptoms, it was a loose wire and just going to jumper the srnsors I had the genset back running in minutes.
Plus its a simple troubleshooting procedure that takes just a few minutes and costs nothing.
Side bar..... I believe the start procedure is preheat for as long as you think necessary, usually a few seconds to 10 or 15 unless freezing..... start button......release start button as soon as engine starts still holding preheat/overide button....... release overide/preheat button as oil pressure stabilizes but usually once past 25 or so you should good. Pretty much the same for many older gensets.
Offhand I dont see holding the starter button past start as a problem....it just isnt necessary. Hopefully Ski can sum things up better.
|
|
|
06-20-2018, 06:02 PM
|
#20
|
Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
|
I tried again today. Held the preheat a few seconds after it started and it ran for 5-10 seconds and quit. Became increasingly harder to start after that.
I jumpered the exhaust gas and water temp sensors (clipped the two wires together) and no change. When I attempted to jumper what I believed to be the oil pressure sender, I got sparks. This is on the outboard side of the engine, tight up against a wall and I’m not really sure what I’m looking at. The Westerbeke parts manual identifies it as the generator safety shutdown sensor, but there’s a lot of other stuff hidden back there.
Tomorrow I’ll try to find the fuel solenoid. If there’s only one wire to a sensor, how do you jump it? Clip it to ground or just detach it?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|