Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-03-2019, 09:15 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
SeaBreeze's Avatar
 
City: Va Beach
Vessel Name: SeaShell
Vessel Model: 1974 Marine Trader 34 Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 169
Change oil beginning of season or end of season?

As I think about winterizing in late November or early December I am uncertain when is the preferred time to change the engine and generator oil. Both were changed in April and there is only 50 - 60 hours on the main oil and 10 on the genny. Main is a Ford Lehman 120 with 3100 hours. Do you change in November and let it sit until April or change in April? Or does it not matter?
__________________
Advertisement

SeaBreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:31 AM   #2
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,180
Normal practice is to change the oil right before haulout, then let it sit over the winter with clean oil. That oil is then good for the next season. Best to change before running to the haulout so you get an hour or two for the fresh oil to spread around. Even with only 10hr on gennie oil, I'd change it anyway, it is not much oil.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:40 AM   #3
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,083
Experts say to do it in the fall. Engine oil does not really "fail" it retains most of its lubrication qualities for far beyond the recommended change periods. The problem is that used old accumulates acids and other nasty residues which could damage the engine. Detergents and additives do a good job of suspending particles but sitting all winter may allow them to collect in low areas or in filters. Best to get it out and have the clean , new oil in the engine for the winter.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:42 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,516
Personally, I always change right before I winterize. Sitting over the winter with clean oil might be slightly nicer to the equipment. Plus, it's one less thing to worry about during spring commissioning.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:50 AM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,674
I prefer the fall and an oil analysis to go with it.


That way you might be informed of impending issues which you now have dead time to work on.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 10:31 AM   #6
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 930
Changing at 50 hrs and 10hrs? We don't know anything about winterising here in Australia but I find the idea of changing oil at those intervals pretty strange.
Aquabelle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 10:35 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquabelle View Post
Changing at 50 hrs and 10hrs? We don't know anything about winterising here in Australia but I find the idea of changing oil at those intervals pretty strange.
For a lot of us who store the boat over the winter, oil changes come at either some number of hours or at the end of the season (regardless of hours), whichever comes first. And in some cases, it'll get changed 3/4 of the way through the season and there may only be another 20 - 30 hours of runtime before the end of season change.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 10:55 AM   #8
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,674
Not sure I would bother to change it if I was expecting less than 50 hours running before the end of the season.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:13 AM   #9
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,180
It is a bit strange to change oil that early. But the Lehman runs cool oil temps (sea water oil cooler) and the cool oil temps are not very good at driving out moisture from combustion. Bearings DO NOT like sitting if there is any moisture present. So a good idea to have it sit with known fresh oil.

Other engines that run 210F oil temps there will be no moisture in the oil. Those I see no problem sitting over the winter with 60hr oil.

My Cummins I generally go 300hr on the oil and in some periods where I don't run it much, that could be over two years. I'm fine with that as the oil is coolant cooled and runs hotter than the coolant. And no winter storage here in NC.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:43 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
It is a bit strange to change oil that early. But the Lehman runs cool oil temps (sea water oil cooler) and the cool oil temps are not very good at driving out moisture from combustion. Bearings DO NOT like sitting if there is any moisture present. So a good idea to have it sit with known fresh oil.
This is a good point. A lot of gassers have seawater oil coolers with no thermostats as well. I've debated adding thermostats to the oil coolers on mine for this reason, as the oil gets warm enough when running up on plane, but stays pretty cool when running slowly and the engines aren't under a lot of load.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:54 AM   #11
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Experts say to do it in the fall. Engine oil does not really "fail" it retains most of its lubrication qualities for far beyond the recommended change periods. The problem is that used old accumulates acids and other nasty residues which could damage the engine. Detergents and additives do a good job of suspending particles but sitting all winter may allow them to collect in low areas or in filters. Best to get it out and have the clean , new oil in the engine for the winter.

pete
I hear this often but it seems to ignore the oil additives/ingredients that are there specifically to neutralize acids. Those that test their oil know how much neutralizing capacity remains and it has to be a lot after only 50 hrs.

"Total BaseNumber (TBN) is the measurement of the amount of these*acid-neutralizing additives*and is commonly referred to as the “reserve of alkalinity”. New diesel*engine oils*typically have a starting base number of around 10."
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:00 PM   #12
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,180
It is good to have adequate TBN. But that does not help much if there is moisture in the oil. It will cause pitting on the bearings.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:20 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
SeaBreeze's Avatar
 
City: Va Beach
Vessel Name: SeaShell
Vessel Model: 1974 Marine Trader 34 Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 169
My oil change in April was its first since I bought the boat. Changing it in November will get me on an annual schedule. Until I retire I'll average about 100 hours per year unfortunately.
SeaBreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:28 PM   #14
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,435
Pete: it does not accumulate acids. That is a fairy tale oft repeated over and over and over again. Oil contains acid neutralizers that last a very long time, far more than what might be generated in a single season. So, change out your good oil if you wish. I don't. I test and change when the oil analysis says so. Oil is not all that expensive to most boaters, if self-changed, whiich I do but why mess with changing out 24 quarts of oil and two filters any,ore often than need be. Yeah, I know folks, cheap insurance. Using the common knowledge, why not change oil every fifty hours cuz, you know, there is acid in there eating up your engine's internals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Experts say to do it in the fall. Engine oil does not really "fail" it retains most of its lubrication qualities for far beyond the recommended change periods. The problem is that used old accumulates acids and other nasty residues which could damage the engine. Detergents and additives do a good job of suspending particles but sitting all winter may allow them to collect in low areas or in filters. Best to get it out and have the clean , new oil in the engine for the winter.

pete
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:31 PM   #15
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,435
Ski, with great respect, the moisture non-issue is another bogeyman. I have tested oil many, many times and the test comes back with no water in the oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
It is good to have adequate TBN. But that does not help much if there is moisture in the oil. It will cause pitting on the bearings.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:37 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack View Post
Ski, with great respect, the moisture non-issue is another bogeyman. I have tested oil many, many times and the test comes back with no water in the oil.
Moisture accumulation, like oil lifespan, is one of those things that varies based on the engine design and usage patterns. In some cases it'll be a concern, in others it's not.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:40 PM   #17
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,180
I too have tested oil several hundred times. Rarely does it show high moisture in the analysis.

But there is corrosion on valve gear and pitting on bearings. That does not happen unless there is moisture in the oil.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:45 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
I too have tested oil several hundred times. Rarely does it show high moisture in the analysis.

But there is corrosion on valve gear and pitting on bearings. That does not happen unless there is moisture in the oil.
Moisture or oil being run until it's got very little TBN left and acids are starting to become an issue.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 03:32 PM   #19
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,527
I change mine in the fall, regardless of the number of hours on it and at 200-250 hours during the season if I have that many hours on it. We tend to use the boat a bit during the winter months. I keep a heater going in the ER, the engine sits at about 60 F, and with the dehumidifier on the boat, the ER is pretty dry.

Jim
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 03:53 PM   #20
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,580
I don’t doubt that some one in a laboratory some were could give us the ultimate answer. I doubt there is any measurable difference between fall and spring oil changes. The real difference is between those who change oil on schedule and those who don’t change oil.
__________________

tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×