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Old 11-26-2018, 08:51 PM   #21
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Put on 2 new DELPHI 296 secondary filters and use 2 micron Racors as primary filters and you should never need to change the secondaries again, ever unless they rust out. I don't like the idea of removing the secondary because what happens if the primary has a blowout? Next stop injection pump. Yes the mesh on the inlet of the lift pump will catch some of the junk but do you really want to depend on it as a last-chance filter? Pat yourself on the back for saving $20 when paying thousands to clean out the injection system.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
No filter downstream of the lift pump then?

I mounted a small spin on Racor with a bowl where the CAV filters used to be. It is on the pressure side just like that CAV filters.

This is the seventh round trip to FL from New Jersey and it has worked great no air leak worries or stripping plastic nuts, etc.....super easy to bleed.
I thought I remembered someone posting that they were concerned about the vibration rating of the Racor. Not sure it could live happily mounted on the engine? Given your results I guess that's a non-issue.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:07 PM   #23
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Adapters, heres one:
https://tinyurl.com/ydxyhofl



Search for DP1000


RACOR used to have one too. Can't find the link though.
Heres another one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Long-M...r-adaptor-kit/
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:14 PM   #24
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The filter doesn't have to be close to the engine, just the last stop before the injection pump. As the Lehman doesn't suck much fuel, the Racor has no problem with a reverse flow. The only reason you worry about the flow normally is because the "turbine" part of the filter spins out water. If you have water at the final filtration stage you have much worse issues to deal with. Using a Racor here is ONLY a filter, not a water-remover.

I had nice lines made up a a hose shop so they screwed on and didn't need any clamps.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:11 PM   #25
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I have never been able to find a micron listing for the CAV filters but Bob Smith said they were in the 5 to 7 micton range.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:44 AM   #26
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I have never been able to find a micron listing for the CAV filters but Bob Smith said they were in the 5 to 7 micton range.
That is what he told me also.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:39 PM   #27
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Has anyone actually tried these parts on a FL-135? If so, which filter fit:
Use with FF3331, FF1400 or FF1480 listed online

Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
I have the same adapters and document that Easting showed. Did you try American Diesel?

Did a quick check online and this looks like it.

https://www.completetractor.com/fuel...SABEgIgyfD_BwE


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Old 12-03-2018, 03:58 PM   #28
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Throw the filters away and remote-mount a Racor. Commonality, ease of maintenance, all the good things.
Since these are secondary filters, they are under pressure from the lift pump, which is one of the reasons all of the plumbing and the filters are metal. While I like Racor filters for many reasons, they say...

"Install Turbine Series filter on
vacuum side of fuel transfer
pump for optimum water
separating efficiency."

and...

"Vacuum installations are recommended."

A failure of a gasket or fitting will result pressurized fuel leaking from he filter, possibly in a jet or stream.

Probably best not to modify this set up, or at least keep it all metal. You could choose an all-metal Racor sandwich type filter but then you are back to the original issue of replacement hassle.

https://www.parker.com/literature/Ra...ne_Filters.pdf
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:27 PM   #29
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The CAV filters are under pressure too and they are full of o-rings; I found the Racor 500 less fussy than the CAVs. My Racor mod was done in 2005 and its still going strong. There is no issue with water in the secondaries as it should have been dealt with in the primaries. Water getting past the primaries would screw up the CAVs too so that doesn't wash. At least with the clear bowl you can see any water, assuming you ever go down there.

I did not mount the Racor on the engine because there is no specs on the vibration-resistance of the Racor. I did not want the old clam-crusher to shake it apart. The little rattle-pump I installed in a valved loop next to the filter made it very easy to bleed.

A much bigger problem than the final filtration is the 50 hour Simms pump oil change. A friend of mine who rebuilds Lehmans for a living says many owners neglect that maintenance and it has caused many Simms failures. Do yourself a favour, Simms owners, change the oil every 50 hours even if it is entirely a PITA.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:05 PM   #30
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Google cav fuel filter adaptor.
I bought 4 for $14 each today after reading these posts. They came from a vendor on eBay.
(Completetractor) vendor name
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:00 PM   #31
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That issue with the Simms pump only applies to the FL-120, not to the FL-135. The OP said he had a FL-135.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post

A much bigger problem than the final filtration is the 50 hour Simms pump oil change. A friend of mine who rebuilds Lehmans for a living says many owners neglect that maintenance and it has caused many Simms failures. Do yourself a favour, Simms owners, change the oil every 50 hours even if it is entirely a PITA.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:22 AM   #32
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Even then with 120s, the problem is with our dilution by fuel by a worn pump.

If you check the level of oil or can test for fuel in the oil (blotterl test), even American Diesel/Bomac said the 50 hrs is arbitrary. A number of posters have reported being told similar advice.

Yes, the simple thing is to just change it every 50.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
The CAV filters are under pressure too and they are full of o-rings; I found the Racor 500 less fussy than the CAVs. My Racor mod was done in 2005 and its still going strong. There is no issue with water in the secondaries as it should have been dealt with in the primaries. Water getting past the primaries would screw up the CAVs too so that doesn't wash. At least with the clear bowl you can see any water, assuming you ever go down there.

I did not mount the Racor on the engine because there is no specs on the vibration-resistance of the Racor. I did not want the old clam-crusher to shake it apart. The little rattle-pump I installed in a valved loop next to the filter made it very easy to bleed.
The CAV filters have two O rings, a Racor turbine has 5. Still, if you mounted it off the engine that's good and both primary and secondary can be mounted before the pump, on the vacuum side, I've done this for folks who didn't want to deal with the on engine filter replacement, mostly spin ons, at sea.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:42 AM   #34
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What are the thoughts that the last bit of fuel reaching the injection pump should be through a filter ? Just in case.....

.....some even don't like rubber hoses between that last filter and the injection pump...
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:59 AM   #35
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What are the thoughts that the last bit of fuel reaching the injection pump should be through a filter ? Just in case.....

.....some even don't like rubber hoses between that last filter and the injection pump...
Some rubber compounds will deteriorate over time, some not so much.
I would want that hose to be as short as possible...…..
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:27 PM   #36
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My point about the Simms pump is that failures are much more prevalent with owner mis-use than the failure of the filtration. Racors are much easier to service and source filters for and make it possible to see the used elements. Seeing them and their condition can be used to judge the timing of filter changes and its very easy to install a pressure/flow gauge on the filter which, like a volt meter for battery condition is a simple gauge of filter replacement whereas the CAVs are hit-and-miss, change it because-it-feels-good or never change it because out-of-sight-out-of-mind.

How short does a fuel hose have to be? One foot or two? Is three feet too long? Four? The length of the fuel hose is immaterial and specious and I already suggested you have the lines made up.

I'm done with this discussion. I have provided an argument for the simplification of the fuel system. I had modded my Lehman by the filtration, venting, drains in the Simms, lift pump, rattle pump and injectors. All of this worked and has resulted in a Lehman that is still happily running since I did the mods in 2005. Some of this may make your life easier, some of you think I'm full of (boat word) which I might be: do whatever floats your boat.

I could be tricked into providing the name of the friend who rebuilds Lehmans. He blueprints them and rebuilds the injection pumps and he does it way cheaper than most rebuilders or block sales. He specializes in large commercial engines like tugs and coastal freighters and does the Lehmans in his shop. They run like a Rolex when he's done. He is near Vancouver.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:42 PM   #37
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As Steve D suggested, metal spin ons fill the bill. That said, I’ve changed many cartridge type filters over the years and quite frankly find changing out a Racor not that much easier.

Is there something so problematic with the poster’s OEM design that an alternative is required?
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:59 AM   #38
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Is there something so problematic with the poster’s OEM design that an alternative is required?
I'm here..sitting in the background reading. Nothing so problematic that it absolutely requires a change. A couple of things combined cause me to see if there is something more convenient.

First is the location of the starboard CAV's. On the other side of the engine requiring me to crawl over and squeeze in a small space with not so comfortable seating. Would prefer not to have to do this. Irritating if I have to extricate myself to go get something I forgot or find I need. If I had spin-ons or Racors I could change them leaning over the engine from amidship. Much easier.

Second, I'm a relative newbie I don't have any experience with how long a secondary lasts on my boat. Uncomfortable with not seeing their condition. Primaries are 30 micron and on engine CAVs 4-7 or so. Would be nice to be able to visually check them. Could do that with Racors. If not then spin-on's which are more easily changed if in doubt. Which I am on my boat. All the time. About everything.

Had my starboard primary vacuum gauge start to increase. Small amount of debris in the bowl. How much got through to the CAV secondaries? You guys would know but I am clueless. I have to get back there, replace and then cut it open to see and learn.

I am rambling on about something that isn't that big a deal. Just curious about an easier setup is all. While I don't yet have the knowledge that experience brings like you folks I do have knowledge of and experience with ME. If something is a pain to do I will procrastinate and let it go. Anything I can do to make oil/fluid and filter changes easier on the boat is a good thing. To me they are too cheap to not change frequently, probably more frequently than really needed. Just trying to make it easy.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:11 AM   #39
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What are the thoughts that the last bit of fuel reaching the injection pump should be through a filter ? Just in case.....

.....some even don't like rubber hoses between that last filter and the injection pump...
Oh I wouldn't ditch the CAV sandwich or spin on secondary filters, or metallic piping, as I said, best not to modify the on engine parts, I'm simply saying that having primary 30 or 10 micron Racor and secondary 2 micron Racor filters before the pump, and on engine filter, means the likelihood of the on engine filter needing replacement is far less likely. You could do it at your leisure rather than being forced to do so. As an aside, the primary filter should absolutely be equipped with a vacuum gauge, it's the only accurate means of knowing when it's time to change the filter. More on the vacuum gauge here https://www.proboat.com/2012/04/the-vacuum-gauge-tool/
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:09 AM   #40
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For Ford Lehman Owners

I just spoke to Brian Smith, who says the adapter for the CAV-to-spin-on replacements likely won’t work for most Ford-Lehman engines because the heat exchanger directly below the filter elements is in the way. So they’re a no-go for my SP135s. (The exception is the FL120, where the heat exchanger isn’t in the way.)

If somebody has successfully installed a spin-on adapter on a 135, please post.

I explained that I’d like to move to an on-engine filter with a smaller than 10 micron rating, if possible. Brian says the FLs spec a 2-10 micron CAV filter and that the OEM Delphi 296 elements have denser filter media and are below 10 microns. (I’ve seen them rated at 5 to 7 microns; no idea what the efficiency is supposed to be.)

So to keep things “simple,” I’ll be using a Fleetguard 20 micron “mud” filter on the fuel transfer system, pumping fuel to the day tank. Next, the primary filters will be 10 micron (either the existing Racors or Fleetguard upgrades) and the on-engine CAVs will be the Delphis at 5-7 microns.

This should provide the graduated filtering that Tony Athens recommends.

Additionally, my fuel transfer system (I’m not calling it a polishing system) draws from the very bottom of the saddle tanks. So whenever I shift fuel to the day tank, I should get any water and crud that might be lurking out. Anyway, that’s the plan.
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