Bypass Oil Filters - Gulf Coast

[CaptTom]

A PO installed a pair of Gulf Coast bypass lube oil filters:

I've never run these, but I figure extra filtering of lube oil is a good thing, right?

The time has come to change the engine oil (or maybe not, I have no record of when it was last done.) At any rate, I'm going to.

From what I've read in the manual I downloaded, you just replace the paper towel roll inside. Is that all there is to it?

I'd also be interested to hear if anyone has a strong opinion against using these.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I would get an initial and ongoing oil analysis. GCF are supposed to be effective to reduce the frequency of routine oil changes. The oil analysis will provide a true picture and verify that all is well (or not). The military and large oil companies use GCF on there equipment. Since I don't have first hand experience with them, my free advice is worth every penny you paid!

 

[C lectric]

I looked into these things years ago and decided, NO. However, you already have them so carry on. The extra oil it keeps in the system is generally a good thing.

I agree though with Sailor of Fortune, get an oil sample/test done before you change the oil. Anytime someone is trying to run extended oil change intervals it does need to be done in combination with proper testing.

 

[CaptTom]

OK, OK. I'll look at oil analysis. It certainly can't hurt to establish a baseline. I have to say, I always thought that sort of thing was for large organizations where trends can be tracked fleet-wide and maintenance intervals can be based on statistics instead of just hours.

I have no plans to use the GCFs to extend the interval to 1,000 hours or whatever the claim is. This first year I'll be lucky to get 100 hours on the engines, and I'll change it again next spring anyway. Once I get into longer-range cruising I'll go by engine hours instead of season.

 

[Steve]

A friend used them for years & still does, he has two Detroit Diesel about 150 HP
He told me he never changed his oil. When you take the paper towel out a lot of oil comes with it and he just added new oil to replace that. Those were on a houseboat so didn't get a lot of run time.
What about oil "additives" over time, I don't know, maybe oil analysis can determine their presence, thats another thing to check on.
Steve W.
\
If I remember right a certain brand of paper towel is recommended you might check with GCF.

 

[hollywood8118]

If I remember right a certain brand of paper towel is recommended you might check with GCF.

keep them they work.. bounty is the preferred. the bonus is you DO get to extend oil changes.. I did a bunch or research on these a few years back.. I ended up with Purifiner units but these do work

HOLLYWOOD

 

[CaptTom]

Wow. I don't think having GCFs means you NEVER have to change the oil. Of all the money we spend for our boats, fresh oil has to be one of the best investments.

I saw this line about the "quality" paper towels in the GCF instruction manaual: "NOTE! New roll must be quality 6" OD paper towel such as Scott."

Ahh, for the good old days when there was only one size and style of paper towels. I wonder what people will think when they see me in the supermarket going through all the paper towels with a tape measure? Scott is a middle-of-the-road brand nowadays. But for all I know the "stronger" or "quicker" towels may not filter as well.

 

[CPseudonym]

Not to be the naysayer but it sounds like a whole pile of work for not that much gain. Sampling, towel brand and size, adding oil anyway, additional potential leak/failure points and all.

Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?

 

[psneeld]

Not to be the naysayer but it sounds like a whole pile of work for not that much gain. Sampling, towel brand and size, adding oil anyway, additional potential leak/failure points and all.

Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?

Agreed...I am way more worried and have a much better chance of an oil cooler failure than I do from wearing my engine out form properly maintained and changed oil. Even the selection of a better regular oil filter probably has more effect than adding a GCF to a good "stock" oil filter.

 

[CaptTom]

Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?

Yes, and the irony is that I'm going to do that anyway. Still, I don't see any good reason to remove the GCFs. As was pointed out, if nothing else they increase the total inventory of oil circulating through the engine.

 

[RickB]

A PO installed a pair of Gulf Coast bypass lube oil filters.

Are they the only oil filters now?

 

[CaptTom]

Are they the only oil filters now?

No, the normal engine lube oil filters are installed, and have a date written on them of just about a year and a half ago. I suspect they're like the fuel filters, the PO went to NAPA and had them look up something that would (sort of) fit. I'll have to do some homework to find the RIGHT filters this time.

 

[RickB]

No, the normal engine lube oil filters are installed ...

Ah, so. In that case, and in keeping with your thought "if nothing else they increase the total inventory of oil circulating through the engine," I would leave them plumbed in but not bother with putting paper towels in them.

Given the fact that the quality control and specifications for paper towels might be somewhat less restrictive than we hope apply to proper filter media, I would be very concerned about debris from dissolving paper entering the lube oil system and potentially causing more problems.

If someone feels the need to "polish" lube oil, they might consider installing an aftermarket "spinner" type unit to capture solids:

Models and Specs : Spinner II® Products : High-efficiency lube oil filtration for heavy-duty diesel engines.

 

[psneeld]

My thoughts exactly....not sure exactly how abrasive cellulose is, some reports say it is, some say it's not...got to think engine components are harder but I haven't seen any data.

Just have never really read anything (other than probable propaganda) that says normal engine filtration systems are inadequate for superior engine life...not until you get into some pretty sophisticated systems on engines that are 24/7 usage where service interruption would be inconvenient.

 

[RickB]

Just have never really read anything (other than probable propaganda) that says normal engine filtration systems are inadequate for superior engine life...not until you get into some pretty sophisticated systems on engines that are 24/7 usage where service interruption would be inconvenient.

Even then the supplemental systems are very effective and well proven devices such as heaters and centrifuges and self cleaning filters. On large engines we sample and test onboard and correct TBN as needed to compensate for fuel specs.

I'll stick my neck out and say that for engines less than around 5000 hp, the lubrication system bolted on the engine by the manufacturer along with the manufacturer's operating book and maintenance schedule is all you need to obtain long and dependable service.

There is a peculiar culture (?) among recreational boaters to complain about the price of required parts while happily finding a reason to justify the purchase of a device which, to be kind, might best be described as the product of voodoo engineering and technical folklore.

 

[psneeld]

Even then the supplemental systems are very effective and well proven devices such as heaters and centrifuges and self cleaning filters. On large engines we sample and test onboard and correct TBN as needed to compensate for fuel specs.

I'll stick my neck out and say that for engines less than around 5000 hp, the lubrication system bolted on the engine by the manufacturer along with the manufacturer's operating book and maintenance schedule is all you need to obtain long and dependable service.

There is a peculiar culture (?) among recreational boaters to complain about the price of required parts while happily finding a reason to justify the purchase of a device which, to be kind, might best be described as the product of voodoo engineering and technical folklore.

I'll drink to that...in fact I am!!! Hope you are enjoying too (whether drinking or not!!!

 

[Edelweiss]

How true, I think it's a mind set that started with snake oil salemen traveling around the country selling remedies that cured everything. lol

When we bought our first boat, my father who was a big fan of engine oil and fuel additives, like Bardole, STP, Hilton Hyperlube, etc. asked the Perkins dealership what additives we should be using. The man responded, "Well they're really not necessary, but if you are going to add something then use this product......at least it won't hurt anything."

Much to my chagrin we headed directly to a supply store so Dad could buy the "not necessary" additive product.

He was from that generation who believed that, "If a little bit was good, then a lot more must be better!"

LB

 

[Nomad Willy]

I agree w Rick that paper towels are not designed to filter engine oil and may be questionable for that purpose. Car bypass oil filtration used toilet paper (as in ass wipe) as the filtering element. I've always thought of that as questionable.

But bypass oil filtration was the only filters on cars before "full flow" fitlers came along .. in the late 50s I think. The only reason (as I recall) to go to "full flow" filters was to make sure you got that hunk of grud before it was pumped to the engine bearings. And the only reason to stay w the bypass filter was that it was supposed to do a much better job of filtering other than letting some crud "by pass" the filter.

Well the very obvious thing to do here is to employ both full flow and by pass filtration. But if one is to use a 2 micron "full flow" filter there seems little use to halving a by pass filter. I switched to 10 micron several years back after hearing or reading there was no need for filtering as fine as 2 micron. Did I get the right information or what? If it IS true one would have no practical use for by pass filtering at all. However filtering out very fine contaminants may have benefits or even great benefits but how's an average Joe (Eric) going to know such a thing?

Evolution ... one of my favorite words. It HAS evolved that we don't need by pass filtration as is evident by the (as far as I know) total lack of it coming from all but questionable aftermarket suppliers. And if toilet paper or paper towels was the best filtering element why do we never see same used in cars, trucks and boats coming from industry?

I suspect that the by pass filters make the oil look clean (less black) by filtering out harmless stuff that causes oil to look dirty (ewe black). It must be harmless as nobody in industry is making any effort filter "it" out.

I read or was told somewhere that what caused oil to turn black was the accumulation of carbon. AND I was also told that carbon is a very hard and abrasive material that caused much engine wear.

I'd be interested in hearing fiction and fact about all of the above.

 

[RickB]

It HAS evolved that we don't need by pass filtration as is evident by the (as far as I know) total lack of it coming from all but questionable aftermarket suppliers.

That is not quite accurate. There are several bypass lube oil filtration systems available from highly reputable manufacturers and some of them are standard or optional equipment on engines direct from the manufacturer.

I don't have a photo to insert here at the moment but will take a couple on a boat later today that has 2 spinner type bypass filters installed on each engine.

If you want to start learning a bit about lube oil filtration, Cummins published an excellent guide:

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT32599_03.pdf

 

[CPseudonym]

Thanks for the excellent links Rick. I do not pretend to know anything substantive about either oil or fuel filtering. We have a service agreement with the local CAT dealer to service our standby generators. The mechanic that serves our equipment has worked for CAT over 20 years.

I asked the mechanic once what is the best micron count for a filter? He told me if the average user uses the factory recommended filter types and sizes along with recommended service intervals and procedures it would be mighty difficult to go wrong. He also told me the average user that does get worked up about micron size typically does not understand the subject as well as they think they do.

One of our units is approaching 30 years old without any issues. The factory recommendation appears to work for us.

 

[Brooksie]

I have had a bypass filter on my diesel car since almost new, now is 25 yrs old and 500,000+ miles. Used to drive it for work & it's still my daily driver. Ever only 3 engine repairs (2 timing chains which is routine maintenance and a rear main seal). Mine takes toilet paper not paper towel. I always changed my oil at almost the normal interval. I am a believer.

 

[RickB]

There are several bypass lube oil filtration systems available from highly reputable manufacturers and some of them are standard or optional equipment on engines direct from the manufacturer.

Here are the spinners and the quad (double duplex) lube filters. Secondary duplex fuel filters below at lower left corner of photo.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Brooks or Rick,
What does the by pass filter take out of the oil that the regular quality automotive filter does not?

What is it that you believe Brooksie? That your by pass filter enabled you to drive your car 500K miles? I'd like to know that it did. Then I could use one too and enjoy the benefits.

But Rick points out that Cummins is involved in by pass lubrication and that's a big endorsement I think. Your "believing" in them is also an endorsement but not so big ... sorry. I was kinda expecting Rick to say the by pass filter filters out much finer stuff or other stuff the regular filters don't address.

 

[Brooksie]

Brooks or Rick,
What does the by pass filter take out of the oil that the regular quality automotive filter does not?

What is it that you believe Brooksie? That your by pass filter enabled you to drive your car 500K miles? I'd like to know that it did. Then I could use one too and enjoy the benefits.

But Rick points out that Cummins is involved in by pass lubrication and that's a big endorsement I think. Your "believing" in them is also an endorsement but not so big ... sorry. I was kinda expecting Rick to say the by pass filter filters out much finer stuff or other stuff the regular filters don't address.

A bypass filter removes particles many times smaller than a full flow filter can, down to one micron. Full flow filters would not pass the necessary volume of oil to lubricate the engine if asked to do that; therefore they are 7-15 microns. So yes the bypass process does filter out particles 7-15 times smaller than a full flow filter.

Yes, I do believe that the bypass filter was an important factor in extending the life of my car's engine.

There are those that say that particles smaller than 7 microns do no damage to an engine because the oil film is thicker than that. I disagree, that's liking saying you can't remove material with fine sandpaper.

 

[RickB]

Search the literature, Eric. The spinners are bypass units, they remove soot and other light solids much more effectively than standard filters. Paper (though they might be other materials) remove moisture and some large solid contaminants. Together they do a very good job of removing much of the contaminants.

It is not unusual to find a half inch or more of tightly packed carbon in a spinner in the same cleaning interval as a filter change. That is crud that the filter didn't catch.

I think a bypass filter with a paper element is just another filter. It doesn't offer much more than just another filter in the system other than more plumbing, places to leak, and expense to replace paper towels or TP rolls.

 

[psneeld]

The problem with gimmicks and snake oil is that the people who by into them are trapped with their decision so they support it with a vengeance sometimes...

For every car that has run 500,000 miles with an XYZ...there are dozens that did it without...or without the "magic potion" that some people claim.

Sure there are great systems out there that can probably extend the lives of our vessel systems...but I really doubt they use paper towels or toilet paper to do it.

For those of us who only need our engines to last 20,000 miles or so...stock systems with the best filters we can afford will generally let the engine last well past where we kill it from some other maintenance/operational oversight.

 

[Brooksie]

Search the literature, Eric. The spinners are bypass units, they remove soot and other light solids much more effectively than standard filters. Paper (though they might be other materials) remove moisture and some large solid contaminants. Together they do a very good job of removing much of the contaminants.

It is not unusual to find a half inch or more of tightly packed carbon in a spinner in the same cleaning interval as a filter change. That is crud that the filter didn't catch.

I think a bypass filter with a paper element is just another filter. It doesn't offer much more than just another filter in the system other than more plumbing, places to leak, and expense to replace paper towels or TP rolls.

I had a "spinner" centrifuge filter on an old Honda MC I had. It spun out a layer of what looked like cardboard from the oil which was not filtered in any other way. Great device for sure simple to service too, just pry out the "cardboard", wipe out the housing, close it up. It was power driven off the crankshaft.

I can't help but think oil passing end to end through a roll of single ply TP is a much more effective filter than a pleated paper element. I know, when I change it, it is very heavy, much more than an equal size roll soaked in clean oil. Soot, dirt, water, I dont know; but nothing I want in my engine. I said I was a believer; just answering the initial question, not asking anyone else to believe.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks all. It appears my assumptions were basically correct.

Re what psneeld said is it worth the effort to buy and install the by pass?

Psneeld it looks like you've turned my old anchor into an oil filter. Must have gone down a slippery slope to arrive at that. (XYZ)

Never heard of a "spinner" but I think I get the drift of what it is. A powered oil filter ... what next?

 

[Torben DH]

My car is eqipped with a 2L Ford Diesel, have done 504.000km Only part ever changed on the engine and drivetrain is aa 8$ union for the powersteering pump, it has none other filtration than the stock very small oilfilter and has NOT been kept with service as perscribed by ford. Supposed to change the oil every 15.000 last time it got to 28.000 before i got around to it...

I used to work on a farm where we had a John deere tractor, kept with service until sold at 13.000 engine hours, never had a single repair. Didnt have any kind of extra or bypass oil filter either...

 

[RickB]

Never heard of a "spinner" but I think I get the drift of what it is. A powered oil filter ... what next?

This discussion has only scratched the surface of the techniques and hardware available and in common use to clean lube oil.