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10-23-2021, 07:07 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic #715
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
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Bow Thruster
We are considering adding a Bow Thruster to our single screw GB 36. Is a pretty much standard 12 volt / 120 volt 30 amp boat. Any thoughts on 12 volt vs 24 volt thruster? Batteries and thruster will be self contained in the bow. So will make for short cable runs.
Also wondering about charging off 100 amp Balmar with an ACR vs dedicated 120 volt battery charger.
Thoughts are appreciated
__________________
Carl
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10-23-2021, 07:57 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,835
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I would go 24 volt. Half the amperage for the same thrust. Lower voltage drop because of less amperage means the motor runs more efficiently and generates less heat.
I prefer the dedicated battery charger if you run a pure sine wave inverter or the generator while underway.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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10-23-2021, 07:57 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Long island
Vessel Model: Eastern
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 633
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My preference is 12v volt for simplicity. I installed a AGM 12v 2’ from the thruster. It is all stand alone. I added a 10 dedicated amp charger . It is completely isolated from any other system. It moves my 13,k boat with ease. I added a guest battery switch to make for a mechanical disconnect should anything happen.
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10-23-2021, 10:58 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Holladay, UT
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 841
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Our NT 37 has a bow bank (two g31 Deka AGM's in parallel for 12V, for both windlass and bow thruster) just a few feet of 2/0 cable from the thruster. Charged by a Blue Seas ACR from the house bank. Simple, works like a charm, and runs the thruster for many seconds with no problem.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065) Poulsbo WA
Previously: New Moon (Bounty 257), Cindy Sea (C-Dory 22 Cruiser)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
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10-23-2021, 12:04 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
My preference is 12v volt for simplicity. I installed a AGM 12v 2’ from the thruster. It is all stand alone. I added a 10 dedicated amp charger . It is completely isolated from any other system. It moves my 13,k boat with ease. I added a guest battery switch to make for a mechanical disconnect should anything happen.
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Aside from needing more batteries to make 24V, what would make a 12V version -- as in your installation, and OP's similar bow location -- simpler than a 24V version of the same?
-Chris
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Chesapeake Bay, USA
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10-23-2021, 02:30 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic #715
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
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I am installing a somewhat over sized thruster. The people that I am purchasing it from seem to think that 24 volts is the correct application for that particular thruster. Pricing is the same other then a minimum of 2 batteries for 24 volts. Also a dedicated charger seems best.
Thanks for everyone’s input. .
__________________
Carl
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10-23-2021, 02:37 PM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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I am putting both bow and stern thrusters on our “new” boat. They are both 24 volt. The only problem is that I couldn’t find any 24 volt Promariner chargers so I had to buy Mastervolt. Our boat was at the top end for 12 volt thrusters and near the bottom end for 24 volt thrusters. The difference in cost was $1000 for both and 2 batteries. To me that was a no brainer to go with the larger thrusters.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-23-2021, 05:32 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Burien
Vessel Name: Star Weird
Vessel Model: Camargue
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 381
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10000% go 24v. To simplify, just put a small charger dedicated for those batteries up in the bow. Run it through your regular AC. A LOT less cable/config to worry about... But whatever you do, 24v all the way!!!
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10-23-2021, 05:36 PM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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Yes, I am putting in 2 24 volt 20 amp chargers, one for bow and one for stern. Much easier than trying to run heavy cables forward.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-23-2021, 05:46 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
City: Burien
Vessel Name: Star Weird
Vessel Model: Camargue
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 381
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Comodave- YEP! So much easier and efficient!
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10-23-2021, 06:15 PM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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Just make sure that you secure the batteries in the bow really well. I am putting in 2 AGMs and bought some Atwood battery trays. I am using them but am not really impressed with them. The batteries slide back and forth 3/4” which is technically ok by ABYC standards but I don’t want them moving at all so I cut a piece of Starboard to shim the tray so the batteries don’t move at all. Also the top that holds the batteries down is flimsy so I added a piece of Starboard across the top to hold the batteries down. And I will be through bolting the trays instead of just screwing them down.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-23-2021, 07:40 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
City: Burien
Vessel Name: Star Weird
Vessel Model: Camargue
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
Just make sure that you secure the batteries in the bow really well. I am putting in 2 AGMs and bought some Atwood battery trays. I am using them but am not really impressed with them. The batteries slide back and forth 3/4” which is technically ok by ABYC standards but I don’t want them moving at all so I cut a piece of Starboard to shim the tray so the batteries don’t move at all. Also the top that holds the batteries down is flimsy so I added a piece of Starboard across the top to hold the batteries down. And I will be through bolting the trays instead of just screwing them down.
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NICE! Those def aren't moving! Mine are also through-bolted. I used foam from gym floor mats on my outside edges. Piece of duct tape on one side makes sure they dont move and I can use a smaller piece 2"x2" square. Keeps them secure but also doesn't "insulate" them and keeps a buffer of air around the batteries. Also keeps the batteries from having any sort of "abrasion point" since they will def. get some motion in the bow from waves, but also micro-vibration...
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10-27-2021, 06:05 AM
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#13
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Just be sure to read the use booklet before buying a thruster.
Many are very very limited in terms of operating time ( in seconds) vs cooling time.
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10-27-2021, 06:34 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
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While I understand the reflex to recommend 24v, much depends on geometry- bear in mind,, this is a 36 foot boat. For my Willard 36, I went the 2x12v AGM parallel (12v) route. Distance from forward batteries to thruster is under 5-feet. Also powers existing 12v windlass. My house bank is LiFePO4 so have a DC-DC charger for the AGM banks. While I have a generator, it is used only occasionally. Powering a 120vac charger would be problematic. While going 24v reduces cable complexity for the thruster, keeping 12v for the windlass cables increases length and complexity there. For a new build, would go 24v both windlass and thruster.
And let's not forget that the GB36 is a pretty mannerly boat. I would not expect it to require excessive amounts of thrust.
Regardless good luck with the install. I happen to like thrusters. Anything that makes a boat easier to use is good value.
Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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10-27-2021, 07:41 AM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c
Aside from needing more batteries to make 24V, what would make a 12V version -- as in your installation, and OP's similar bow location -- simpler than a 24V version of the same?
-Chris
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I would think charging is the biggest consideration for simplicity. AC chargers are one thing but what about when you are cruising away from dock and don't want to run gennie to get back to 100% charge.
DC to DC charger may be the simplest as how ever you charge house or start it then takes care of the thruster.
Just remember that AGM need to be brought back to 100% SOC at least periodically (several days to week).
Cable size a Neg w 12V but with short runs not a big deal.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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10-27-2021, 08:01 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
My preference is 12v volt for simplicity. I installed a AGM 12v 2’ from the thruster. It is all stand alone. I added a 10 dedicated amp charger . It is completely isolated from any other system. It moves my 13,k boat with ease. I added a guest battery switch to make for a mechanical disconnect should anything happen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c
Aside from needing more batteries to make 24V, what would make a 12V version -- as in your installation, and OP's similar bow location -- simpler than a 24V version of the same?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
I would think charging is the biggest consideration for simplicity. AC chargers are one thing but what about when you are cruising away from dock and don't want to run gennie to get back to 100% charge.
DC to DC charger may be the simplest as how ever you charge house or start it then takes care of the thruster.
Just remember that AGM need to be brought back to 100% SOC at least periodically (several days to week).
Cable size a Neg w 12V but with short runs not a big deal.
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Arc said his is an isolated system, with it's own nearby battery and charger... and his preference for "12 volt for simplicity." Sounds like a good set-up, but...
I just wondered what would make 12V simpler than 24V in a similar isolated system -- own battery bank, own charger -- aside from having to add battery to get to 24V.
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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10-27-2021, 09:08 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver
I would go 24 volt. Half the amperage for the same thrust. Lower voltage drop because of less amperage means the motor runs more efficiently and generates less heat.
I prefer the dedicated battery charger if you run a pure sine wave inverter or the generator while underway.
Ted
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Thumbs up. Having run a GB36 extensively, I wholeheartedly agree with adding a BT. 24V for the isolated system you propose would be good because the GB is not a light boat, and 24V would drive a smallish BT harder than 12V power. Do you foresee any need to charge the 24V system underway? I would think not.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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10-27-2021, 09:12 AM
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#18
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c
Arc said his is an isolated system, with it's own nearby battery and charger... and his preference for "12 volt for simplicity." Sounds like a good set-up, but...
I just wondered what would make 12V simpler than 24V in a similar isolated system -- own battery bank, own charger -- aside from having to add battery to get to 24V.
-Chris
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Wasn't clear if only recharges at the dock or when gen runs. I am glad I charge mine while underway using a charge relay... easy w 12V requires another charger (DC TO DC) if 24V
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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10-27-2021, 09:58 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano
Thumbs up. Having run a GB36 extensively, I wholeheartedly agree with adding a BT. 24V for the isolated system you propose would be good because the GB is not a light boat, and 24V would drive a smallish BT harder than 12V power. Do you foresee any need to charge the 24V system underway? I would think not.
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IMO, it's too easy to have recharging underway, not to do it. Performance is always better with maximum voltage (fully charged battery).
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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10-27-2021, 11:07 AM
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#20
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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Our last boat had a stern thruster and we only charged the battery when we were on shore power or had the generator running. We never had any issues with the battery being discharged. You only run the thruster for brief times.
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