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Old 04-03-2020, 07:26 PM   #1
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4.236 Shut-Down Solenoid - Picture anyone?

My Perkins 4.236 has had a pull-cable shut-down connection to the injector pump. I'd like to replace with a proper electric solenoid but I have no idea how it's mounted. If anyone with a 4.236 is on their boat this weekend and could snap a photograph of the shut-down solenoid and mounting linkage, I'd be appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

Peter
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:20 PM   #2
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Of course the solenoid shut down is preferred to the manual. Installing it should not be too difficult.

Keep the manual in place though. You can never tell when you will need it.

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Old 04-04-2020, 03:18 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Of course the solenoid shut down is preferred to the manual. Installing it should not be too difficult.

Keep the manual in place though. You can never tell when you will need it.

pete
When I purchased the boat, it had manual pull cable. Hoping someone out there who has a Perkins 4.236 happens to have access to their boat and can snap a couple pictures of the linkage to show what original config looked like. Probably just some simple bent brackets but I can't visualize from afar - boat is 1500 miles away

Thanks Pete

Peter
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Old 04-05-2020, 10:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
My Perkins 4.236 has had a pull-cable shut-down connection to the injector pump. I'd like to replace with a proper electric solenoid but I have no idea how it's mounted. If anyone with a 4.236 is on their boat this weekend and could snap a photograph of the shut-down solenoid and mounting linkage, I'd be appreciative.



Thanks in advance.



Peter


Peter,

Attached are photos of my 4-236 injection pump.

As background my Willard 36 was built in 1967 with a Perkins 4-236. In about 2000 the original engine was replaced with one reputed to have been built in 1998.

I have both a cable operated manual shutdown, and a solenoid valve that is on when the “ignition” is turned on by the key, and a manual lever that shuts the engine down via a cable and pull handle on the dash.
Click image for larger version

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In this photo the lever in the foreground is the stop lever, with its operating cable. The lever in the background Is the throttle.
Click image for larger version

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This photo shows the electrically operated solenoid valve. It is energized when the key is on, allowing the engine to run. When key off the solenoid de-energizes, and the engine stops.
Click image for larger version

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This is a photo from the maintenance manual for the newer engine. It shows only the solenoid valve.

In summary the electrical shutdown is not a mechanical solenoid operating the stop lever, it is a solenoid valve interrupting the fuel flow to the injectors.

Hope this helps.

Bill
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Old 04-06-2020, 12:50 AM   #5
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On my 4-236, the fuel shut off is actuated by a push button to the solenold. For reasons I am not sure, the PO instructed to always turn off the key first then piush the button. I do it as a routine, like no whistling in the wheel house of bananas onboard, honor of tradition , one could suppose.
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Old 04-06-2020, 01:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al View Post
On my 4-236, the fuel shut off is actuated by a push button to the solenold. For reasons I am not sure, the PO instructed to always turn off the key first then piush the button. I do it as a routine, like no whistling in the wheel house of bananas onboard, honor of tradition , one could suppose.
Hmmm, unless that is boat/engine specific, I was always told NEVER to turn off the power before shutting down - something about the alternators- never completely understood it, but it sounded logical so I do it as routine. BTW, we do have bananas on board and I have been known to break into a whistle
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Old 04-06-2020, 07:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Cessna View Post
Peter,
As background my Willard 36 was built in 1967 with a Perkins 4-236. In about 2000 the original engine was replaced with one reputed to have been built in 1998.

I have both a cable operated manual shutdown, and a solenoid valve that is on when the “ignition” is turned on by the key, and a manual lever that shuts the engine down via a cable and pull handle on the dash.
Attachment 101104
In this photo the lever in the foreground is the stop lever, with its operating cable. The lever in the background Is the throttle.
Attachment 101105
This photo shows the electrically operated solenoid valve. It is energized when the key is on, allowing the engine to run. When key off the solenoid de-energizes, and the engine stops.
Attachment 101106
This is a photo from the maintenance manual for the newer engine. It shows only the solenoid valve.

In summary the electrical shutdown is not a mechanical solenoid operating the stop lever, it is a solenoid valve interrupting the fuel flow to the injectors.

Hope this helps.

Bill
Bill - this is super helpful, and also thought provoking. The original 1998 purchase survey of Weebles showed the engine was from the 1980's so was not OEM to my 1970 Willard 36. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, though I've always wondered what the OEM engine was - probably a 4.236, but who knows, or why it was swapped out, or even if the Surveyor's look-up was correct, though I suspect it was as I have worked with him several times (Peter Minkwitz, Oakland CA, now passed).

It's possible my CAV Injection pump has the internal electric solenoid shown on the shop manual drawing, I just never noticed it or knew what it was. I'll have to get a picture of it from the yard guys in Mexico. I see the shop manual dates from 1993, so maybe something changed. Could be as simple as no one actually hooked-up the solenoid when she was repowered; or perhaps the solenoid is dead and no one bothered to repair given the manual cable work-around. Or maybe there is no solenoid at all.

Now I'm really curious. Thanks so much for taking the time to snap pics and do the legwork. Very helpful.

Peter
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Old 04-06-2020, 11:06 AM   #8
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UPDATE - Marcus at TAD Diesel replied with quoted response below. There is a retrofit kit available for $245 which I will order. Seems a bit steep, but given there likely aren't more than a dozen a year sold, understandable. Prices from TAD have been pretty fair over the years and I assume that if something is high, there's a reason for it - low volume custom pieces that in-stock certainly qualify They have been really helpful - glad they're around for us owners of old Perkins'
"The internal solenoid you are referring to was not fitted as a standard item on marine engines. Not to say it would not work if one was fitted. To clarify. It cannot be added to a pump that was not built with one. Bottom line you probably don't have one on your pump." Marcus, TAD
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:19 PM   #9
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Thanks for investigating further Peter!

For sure my engine was not built as “marine” by Perkins, I believe it was a Massey tractor engine purchased new and marinized using a Bowman mani-cooler and Perkins/Jabsco raw water pump. The existence of the stop solenoid valve would be consistent with that theory.

The solenoid you found would be preferable to a cable, especially if you have, or add a fixed automatic engine room fire extinguisher. You would have a way to incorporate the (mandatory?) engine shut down control.
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:38 PM   #10
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Stop solenoids can take many forms. Most work for most engines. The link can be any length to fit the solenoid anywhere it fits with a straight pull. Not difficult to make the link, It can be wire or a spring. The one shown is for Lister diesels, but I have them on 2 Detroits. $32 on eBay and free shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Shutdo...EAAOSwmeNd6HwI
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stop solenoid_sm.jpg   stop solenoid1_sm.jpg  
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Old 04-07-2020, 03:03 PM   #11
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Stop solenoids can take many forms. Most work for most engines. The link can be any length to fit the solenoid anywhere it fits with a straight pull. Not difficult to make the link, It can be wire or a spring. The one shown is for Lister diesels, but I have them on 2 Detroits. $32 on eBay and free shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Shutdo...EAAOSwmeNd6HwI
Thanks Lepke. Will search ebay and other places. One installation note for others. Apparently when the plunger bottoms out, the current reduces to just barely enough to hold it in place. If the linkage is not properly adjusted and the throw is not great enough, the solenoid will eventually burn up. I guess the arm on the injection pump only needs to go about 3/4 the way to shut down engine.
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:28 PM   #12
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Many stop solenoids are 3 wire and dual coil. The large coil pulls the solenoid and the small one is for holding. In those cases there's usually a timed relay that switches coils after a couple seconds.
I don't want to put TAD out of business, but if more boat owners would learn to do small things, the price of small items might be more competitive.
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:52 PM   #13
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Hi mvweebles,
I took these photo's of my Perkins 4236 fuel shut off solenoid setup today, I hope you find them helpful.
Its a pretty simple straight forward installation on an 'L' bracket..
The solenoid unit looks like the same type as the one Lepke posted previously.

1,
Solenoid installation on bracket carrying the red throttle cable.
I disconnected the plastic radiator overflow pipe to give a clearer photo.

2, Solenoid wire cable pull to stop lever. (apologies for the dusty engine).

3, Solenoid.
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FUEL SHUT OFF SOLENOID.jpg   SHUT OFF SOLENOID AND WIRE PULL.jpg   SHUT OFF SOLENOID.jpg  
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:12 PM   #14
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Hi mvweebles,
I took these photo's of my Perkins 4236 fuel shut off solenoid setup today, I hope you find them helpful.
Its a pretty simple straight forward installation on an 'L' bracket..
The solenoid unit looks like the same type as the one Lepke posted previously.

1,
Solenoid installation on bracket carrying the red throttle cable.
I disconnected the plastic radiator overflow pipe to give a clearer photo.

2, Solenoid wire cable pull to stop lever. (apologies for the dusty engine).

3, Solenoid.
Irish - this is really helpful. Question: looks like you do not have a manual stop cable in addition to solenoid? Some others have suggested might be a good idea for emergency - fire for example. Thoughts for all?
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:47 PM   #15
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4.236 Shut-Down Solenoid - Picture anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Irish - this is really helpful. Question: looks like you do not have a manual stop cable in addition to solenoid? Some others have suggested might be a good idea for emergency - fire for example. Thoughts for all?


I think I was the only one mentioning fire. What I was trying to say was a solenoid is an advantage IF you have an automatic engine room fire extinguisher as it allows you to use the automatic engine shut down available with the fire extinguisher. The fire suppression gas does not stop a Diesel, and the running engine sucks the gas out, diminishing the effectiveness. To prevent this they sell a system to electrically stop the engine, but it needs a solenoid to actuate.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:06 AM   #16
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mvweebles.
I'm glad you found the photo's helpful.
Automatic fire extinguishers are banned here in Europe as the contents are not 'green', I don't think a fire is very 'green' either but I wont go there and start an argument.
To be honest I don't think a pull cable is necessary, the possibilities of a fire on a well maintained diesel engined boat are so remote as to be dismissed as overkill.
Over the years I've had both and I've never had a problem with a solenoid except on one occasion.
When we brought our boat from Ireland to Europe we came via the Atlantic, Irish sea and the English channel, we were looking forward to travelling around Europe's canals but a bit sad to be leaving Ireland/England (they don't sell bacon, pork sausages, fish and chips or Guinness in many places in Europe) and just as we started the engine to leave Dover on the English coast it stopped ! A quick check revealed a slightly loose connection which was remedied with a quick squirt of some Contact Cleaner and a crimp with the pliers, but to this day we maintain that the boat was sad to be leaving England.

A petrol/gasser is a different kettle of fish altogether and needs much greater care, personally I wouldn't take one for a gift but I stress that my own personal opinion.
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