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Old 07-17-2018, 09:52 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Gear rattle. You ought to hear my Cummins 450 at 550rpm. Lots of gear noise in N.

If something was wrong with that gear you would hear it when in gear with prop load. If it quiets down with added revs, that is good. If it gets louder with added revs, then time to worry.

My vote is to GO.
It just gets faster—not louder—with added revs in neutral. No sound at all in gear at any rev. Looks like we’re going!

I’m really grateful for the advice.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:55 PM   #62
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It just gets faster—not louder—with added revs in neutral. No sound at all in gear at any rev. Looks like we’re going!

I’m really grateful for the advice.
This is great news and IMHO you did the right thing. You had a concern, you dealt with it and lucked out that it turned out to be a non issue or at most something to watch.

Have a great trip!

Ken
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:19 PM   #63
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This is great news and IMHO you did the right thing. You had a concern, you dealt with it and lucked out that it turned out to be a non issue or at most something to watch.

Have a great trip!

Ken
Thanks very much, Ken. The last place I want a break down on this trip is while running up the Jersey Coast. There might be an onshore breeze and I’d end up in Jersey (just kidding, Scott.)

We checked the screen/filter today for metal shavings and it was clean.

I’m hoping that if the noise does turn out to be the damper plate that it won’t seize the engine if it fails. It doesn’t have springs, but it does have a weird looking plate made of plastic or some composite. We pried and tested it for movement, but it felt rock solid.

I’m going to listen to it under load as part of my regular inspections under way.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:32 PM   #64
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Thats a flex plate. they crack and then flex way too much and then rebound every time a piston inputs combustion pulses.



You need a new one or take it to a normal damper plate.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:44 PM   #65
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Thats a flex plate. they crack and then flex way too much and then rebound every time a piston inputs combustion pulses.

You need a new one or take it to a normal damper plate.
How would I know if it’s cracked?

If piston pulses are causing the noise, would that explain only hearing them in neutral?
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:51 PM   #66
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in most cases like my crossfire's drive shaft and the propshaft of my boat its easy to see the flex plate. in your case its covered mostly and you'll have to split the assembly to check it. cracks in the urethane material should be obvious when you can see it completely. just try and spread the ears/bolt tabs apart from each other. the cracks will be in between them.


also look in the bolt holes as the bushing can wear as well.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:17 PM   #67
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Thanks, the problem is the plate was reinstalled after the yard inspected it. I don’t think there’s any way to pry it open as you describe without destroying it.

In researching this, some of these plates are designed to fail safe—even if the polyurethane cracks and disintegrates, they are designed to continue operating. I don’t know if mine are designed that way, but it will be my first question to tranny specialists tomorrow.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:18 AM   #68
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It should bolt together. The dark bolts hold the flex plate to the flywheel. The light colored ones hold the flex plate to the trannys spline plate.
You can unbolt it from the flywheel and simply flip it around to inspect the urethane.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:31 AM   #69
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It should bolt together. The dark bolts hold the flex plate to the flywheel. The light colored ones hold the flex plate to the trannys spline plate.
You can unbolt it from the flywheel and simply flip it around to inspect the urethane.
Mine doesn’t have bolts holding the smaller and larger plates together. The two plates look like they’re peened together. The whole assembly is bolted to the flywheel.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:21 AM   #70
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That's the same style drive plate that Richard on Dauntless is using. He pulled his tranny to replace some seals and inspected the drive plate at the same time. We discussed it and being that it looked ok and had lots of hours on it, decided to continue using it as is.

Must be a pretty good design.

Did you get a mfr or model number off it while it was in your hands?
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:27 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
That's the same style drive plate that Richard on Dauntless is using. He pulled his tranny to replace some seals and inspected the drive plate at the same time. We discussed it and being that it looked ok and had lots of hours on it, decided to continue using it as is.

Must be a pretty good design.

Did you get a mfr or model number off it while it was in your hands?
Saw no manufacturer’s marks on it when it was out, but we’re pulling the tranny again. The yard thinks they’re looking at a crack in the smaller plate that was overlooked the first time out. It’s visible in the photo above. edit: actually, the resolution isn’t good enough to see the “crack” if it is a crack.

Two words for this and the first is “cluster . . .”
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:02 AM   #72
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It that a crack at 6:00 in the first picture?
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:42 AM   #73
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Angus, just went through this on my port tranny. I pulled the tranny for a rebuild and found the same exact drive plate that your pic shows. Upon close inspection found small cracks in the poly material, and the poly was very hard.
The trans shop said that the tranny showed signs of gear rattle and chatter from that drive plate. Also that that design was for a much higher HP drive line.
The drive plate was not "dampening" the vibrations as it should have.

I replaced the drive plate with a new one recommended for the Lehman/Velvet Drive system, the difference in smoothness and quietness was very noticeable.

The new drive plate was 1/3 the cost of the poly insert one.

Talk to Mike Vogt at Harbor Marine in Everett ,WA. A world of knowledge on marine tranny's and propulsion systems. They do a lot of rebuilds on all makes, an impressive operation. He won't steer you wrong or sell you something that you don't need.


Bill
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:28 AM   #74
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It that a crack at 6:00 in the first picture?
Turns out it was not a crack. The real problem was the “collar” beneath the clip ring on the flywheel side of the plate (pictured below). A groove had worn into it, allowing the splines to wobble. Also, the poly ring is not cracked, but it is slightly distorted.

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Angus, just went through this on my port tranny. I pulled the tranny for a rebuild and found the same exact drive plate that your pic shows. Upon close inspection found small cracks in the poly material, and the poly was very hard.
The trans shop said that the tranny showed signs of gear rattle and chatter from that drive plate. Also that that design was for a much higher HP drive line.
The drive plate was not "dampening" the vibrations as it should have.

I replaced the drive plate with a new one recommended for the Lehman/Velvet Drive system, the difference in smoothness and quietness was very noticeable.

The new drive plate was 1/3 the cost of the poly insert one.

Talk to Mike Vogt at Harbor Marine in Everett ,WA. A world of knowledge on marine tranny's and propulsion systems. They do a lot of rebuilds on all makes, an impressive operation. He won't steer you wrong or sell you something that you don't need.

Bill
So, a new plate is on the way from American Diesel. I did decide to go with the OEM-type plate with metal springs. This puts off our departure ‘til Friday, but the peace of mind is worth it. Big relief just confirming that it’s apparently nothing worse.

Thanks to all once again for the advice and support.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #75
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Good decision, have a safe trip.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:34 AM   #76
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I had the same plates on my boat. At 4800 hours I replaced them when I had the trans rebuilt. They were still good but wasn't going to find out how much longer they would last. Went with traditional spring type from AD.

Ken
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:25 PM   #77
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That's the same style drive plate that Richard on Dauntless is using. He pulled his tranny to replace some seals and inspected the drive plate at the same time. We discussed it and being that it looked ok and had lots of hours on it, decided to continue using it as is.

Must be a pretty good design.

Did you get a mfr or model number off it while it was in your hands?
It looks identical to my new damper plate from R&D Marine.

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:29 PM   #78
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It looks identical to my new damper plate from R&D Marine.

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The very same. They’re very well made.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:45 PM   #79
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Clacking noise is gone!

But the saga continues.

The new damper plate went in easily and the starboard side is as noise-free as a 30-year-old drivetrain can be.

However, the tech noticed some play between the tranny and the aluminum adapter plate that bolts between the Twin Disc and the bell housing. You can see a slight movement in the lower seam when the gears shift (we really had it idling too high). (Ignore me saying “I’m not seeing it” near the end. Once pointed out, it’s obvious.)

Showed the video to Brian at American Diesel and he says the bolts appear to have loosened. So . . . the tranny is coming off tomorrow for the third time.

Next guy that says to me “hey, it’s a boat!” better duck.

https://youtu.be/EvR38Z6N2-g
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:49 PM   #80
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The very same. They’re very well made.
I read a lot of good things about them and got one to proactively replace my old spring loaded one when I had things apart. It seems well designed and constructed.

It occurs to me in following this thread that the failure symtoms may be quite different between the spring vs elastic units, which likely made the diagnosis more difficult. I suspect that most field experience is with the spring ones that are pretty much ubiquitous.
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