Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-14-2018, 08:39 AM   #21
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
So the service manager here at Worton Creek just stopped by (on his day off; can’t say enough good things about John LeClair) and listened to it. He’s skeptical that it’s the damper plate. Thinks it might be a gear. They will tear into it first thing Monday and we’ll know for sure. While it’s open, I’ll probably have the damper replaced anyway—may even do the other one.
__________________
Advertisement

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 09:26 AM   #22
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,179
Can also be a chunk of carbon that gets loose on piston top then starts hitting bottom of cylinder head. Makes aggravated piston slap. Will tend to clear itself out with running.

You mention the noise faded after a restart, that sounds less like a damper as they do not heal.

Not sure what he meant by "gear noise".

Can you post a vid with sound?
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 11:13 AM   #23
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Hope you can hear what I’m hearing. Not sure the sound went away when she revved it up; maybe just too much engine noise to hear it clearly? The “squeaking” noise is really more of a rattle.

Thank you yet again, Ski.

https://youtu.be/pTq9LZ-sNLM
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 11:40 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
alfamike's Avatar
 
City: Camarillo
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 392
Transmission

Which Model Twin Disc transmission do you have in your boat that replaced the Velvet Drive ?
alfamike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 11:47 AM   #25
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,195
Doesn't sound like a damper plate to me. The way it changes tone after a little rev, I'd put my money on Ski's prognosis.

When mine damper plate failed it was a more significant clacking noise, but barely noticeable at idle in nuetral. Much more pronounced in gear between idle and 1500 rpm.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 02:01 PM   #26
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamike View Post
Which Model Twin Disc transmission do you have in your boat that replaced the Velvet Drive ?
It’s an MG5011SC. I just changed the oil in it but noticed the noise beforehand.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 02:06 PM   #27
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
If there’s a consensus that it’s not the damper plate, I wonder how to tell if it’s carbon, as Ski suggests, or a “gear noise” as the service manager hear believes. Also if it’s worth tearing into.

I also don’t know how strict that 2500 hour replacement recommendation actually is. Not trying to cheap out, but would love to know.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 02:19 PM   #28
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,668
If your tranny comes off, it's easy to see the condition of the dampener plate and for around $200 in parts per engine might be worth doing anyway.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 05:45 AM   #29
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Bump . . .

. . . for any additional thoughts on the video.

https://youtu.be/pTq9LZ-sNLM

Thanks
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 05:53 AM   #30
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,943
"I wonder how to tell if it’s carbon,"

Getting rid of carbon in the cylinder head is simple.

After a run with the engine warm , use a "flit" gun a hand held insecticide pump from decades ago filled with tap water.

Idle the engine about 1200-1500 RPM and spray tap water in the intake with enough volume that the engine stumbles , but does not stop.

The water steam cleans the carbon out , on a vehicle a piece of newspaper behind the exhaust will show the results.

Doing this before the next oil change is quick and simple.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 06:01 AM   #31
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"I wonder how to tell if it’s carbon,"

Getting rid of carbon in the cylinder head is simple.

After a run with the engine warm , use a "flit" gun a hand held insecticide pump from decades ago filled with tap water.

Idle the engine about 1200-1500 RPM and spray tap water in the intake with enough volume that the engine stumbles , but does not stop.

The water steam cleans the carbon out , on a vehicle a piece of newspaper behind the exhaust will show the results.

Doing this before the next oil change is quick and simple.
Thanks, Fred. The higher pitched metallic rattling you can hear late in the vid above has got me wondering if it’s carbon.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 08:54 AM   #32
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,179
Sort of missed the update til now..

I hear a little bit of a rattle, is that what concerns you? The motor sounds normal, no carbon type piston slap I was thinking about.

Some rattle in the damper plate/gear is normal on a diesel. Some it is very noticeable, some almost nothing.

But you noticed a change? Do you know what kind of damper plate was put in when the TD gear was installed?

My gut feel is to not get too excited about this. Worst case would be to pull back the gear and inspect damper plate. If it looks good, get the numbers off it and maybe carry a spare.

What kind of sounds do you get when shifting in and out of gear at idle? A worn damper plate often makes noise then. Another vid may be helpful.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 11:11 AM   #33
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Thanks, Ski. I’ll post a vid in a little while to see what’s happening when shifting.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 11:58 AM   #34
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,865
Years ago, and maybe Ski will remember this as he came out and took a look at it then, I had twin Yanmar 3GM30Fs in a sailing catamaran. The port engine ran fine, but the starboard engine was a little hard to start and sounded very much like yours.

The sound didn't change much at higher rpms and didn't change when you shifted into gear, so Ski didn't believe it was the damper. He said to keep an eye on it, but if I didn't have a twin to compare it to, I would never have questioned it. He also suggested checking the injector timing and I did and it seemed to be within spec.

Some hundreds of hours later I replaced the injectors and the hard starting and clatter went away.

David
DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 12:02 PM   #35
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Here’s the latest. Not as noticeable at idle as previously. If anything, it seems quieter when in gear.

The Twin Disc was installed with about 1,700 hours on the engine. No mention in the records about damper plate going in . . . so there’s either 3,400 hours on the plate if it wasn’t swapped out when the TD was installed or 1,700 hours if it was.

https://youtu.be/4jnyWzuR5k8
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 12:06 PM   #36
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Years ago, and maybe Ski will remember this as he came out and took a look at it then, I had twin Yanmar 3GM30Fs in a sailing catamaran. The port engine ran fine, but the starboard engine was a little hard to start and sounded very much like yours.

The sound didn't change much at higher rpms and didn't change when you shifted into gear, so Ski didn't believe it was the damper. He said to keep an eye on it, but if I didn't have a twin to compare it to, I would never have questioned it. He also suggested checking the injector timing and I did and it seemed to be within spec.

Some hundreds of hours later I replaced the injectors and the hard starting and clatter went away.

David
Thanks, Dave. The engine seems to fire right up. The injectors on both engines were serviced in 2014 and have probably under 100 hours on them since. Not to say that they could not be the problem (if there is a problem) .
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 01:11 PM   #37
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,668
I was in the same situation of not knowing the age of the dampener plate...either 2500 hrs or way more.

First symptom was enough clatter to scare me into immediate shutdown and activate a smoke alarm.

A few subsequent rattles were temporary and mild... So I would have a hard time saying exactly what symptoms are normal and we only thought it was a plate from eliminating other issues.

It took another 100hrs till the next symptom which was 2 completely destroyed springs and a jammed flywheel.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 06:12 PM   #38
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
It took another 100hrs till the next symptom which was 2 completely destroyed springs and a jammed flywheel.
That must have sounded horrendous.
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 07:15 PM   #39
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,179
Sounds kinda normal to me. But those damper plates can let go on short order. Hard to give advice here.

Has sound changed recently?
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2018, 08:00 PM   #40
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Sounds kinda normal to me. But those damper plates can let go on short order. Hard to give advice here.

Has sound changed recently?
Yeah, I noticed it for the first time the other day. And today, it sounds normal. Anyway, it’s got me spooked. A guy’s going to slide the tranny back tomorrow and start it up to see if the noise is repeated or if it’s gear noise. I’m inclined to have both plates replaced while he’s (we’re) working down there.
__________________

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×