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Old 02-17-2021, 08:03 AM   #21
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You’re right about an overtaking boat. The roll will toss EVERYTHING. It’s awful. That’s why I like the distance. It gives me time to turn bow in. One has to turn at least 90 degrees to accomplish this. It takes time.

Some places there's no room for a wide swing.


Sometimes putting the wake on the stern is easier.


90 degrees really isn't always necessary, or one needs to secure things better if it can't take some roll.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:06 AM   #22
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or one needs to secure things better if it can't take some roll.
Agreed. There's a big difference between a small wake and an unreasonable wake. Some people seem to complain if another boat causes them to roll 1 degree, which is a bit of a ridiculous expectation.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:18 AM   #23
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In response to the original post I suspect if you do get a response it will be along the lines that the ships were on a time sensitive patrol and therefore justified in making a large wake.

A couple of years ago I recall a CG boat blasting out of Block Island and creating all sorts of chaos to the folks who were rafted up.

That said give space if you can when passing.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rsn48 View Post
My boat on plane throws less of a wake than slowing down and plowing the water. The problem is that when on plane on a smaller wake footprint, to the other boats who aren't aware of this phenomena you appear rude. But if I slow down my wake is actually worse.
This is why when queried about a slow pass on the ICW I’ll ask that they go by up on plane and as fast as possible.
One, the wake is smaller and two, they pass by faster so I’m exposed to the wake for less time.
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Old 02-17-2021, 11:50 AM   #25
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I have no "proof" of the following statement, but experience says it is likely true.

Many powerboaters do not really understand the impact that their wake can have on others, or how long a wake can "follow" your boat.(eg. like into a marina)

One time I was entering Dent Rapids at slack water (very short duration of slack and a very narrow pass). These rapids are very dangerous at full current with whirlpools, overfalls, etc. and currents exceeding 15 knots. A relatively large Rivieria passed me right at the narrowest part on full plane about 40 feet away with no warning. I had no room at all (nor time) to turn into the wake and had to take his 4-5 foot wall of water on the beam. It was not pleasant and we were lucky to avoid injury or damage. He could have slowed down for 2 minutes to allow us to get through the narrows and then passed when we would have had room to maneuver. My educated guess is that he just didn't think about it! Probably never entered his mind. Anyway, he never looked back to witness the results.
My 2 cents on how (in a perfect world) boaters should handle this, is where possible give a wide berth when overtaking. In a (prolonged) narrow waterway contact the boat ahead (VHF) and ask him to reduce speed to idle and then pass at a "low wake" speed like 5 knots (depends on the hull), and once past increase speed as desired. If the boat being overtaken doesn't agree with this plan (without a good explanation), then overtake as needed giving as wide a berth as possible. At least he would have been given the opportunity to experience a smaller wake and would have a warning that you are coming up on him.

However, this is probably not the real world, as I have never seen this done. (nor heard it on the radio)
Often a few seconds of thought and some consideration of others can go a long way.
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Old 02-17-2021, 12:31 PM   #26
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I remember being anchored and seeing the Alaska Ferry go by several miles away. A half hour or more later we rolled violently as the wake finally arrived undiminished by the miles it had travelled.

Part of the problem with overtaking is that some boats do not monitor their VHF and if they do some are very reluctant to slow down enough for a low wake pass. I throw a pretty good wake at nine knots, but when I slow to under six where the wake is minimal I find myself sometimes barely creeping past.

Finally, if a boat does not have a legible and visible name so that I can hail them on the VHF or they do not answer a call to “vessel just passing marker 27......” then I just give the appropriate blast on the horn and come on by. I have 18x stabilized binoculars, but I’ll be damned if I can decipher some of the cartoon or italicized fonts on some boats sterns.

And don’t get me started on boats with the name only on the sides with much of it forwards of the maximum beam or with a tender blocking the name from the rear.
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Old 02-17-2021, 01:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollygag1 View Post
In response to the original post I suspect if you do get a response it will be along the lines that the ships were on a time sensitive patrol and therefore justified in making a large wake.

A couple of years ago I recall a CG boat blasting out of Block Island and creating all sorts of chaos to the folks who were rafted up.

That said give space if you can when passing.

Dauntless patrol boats are 28 feet in length, not ships. If they were on a "time sensitive patrol" why did they have the time to do "doughnuts" in front of Seaport Village?
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Old 02-17-2021, 01:28 PM   #28
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You did not mention the donuts part.
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Old 02-17-2021, 01:46 PM   #29
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http://dbw.parks.ca.gov/pages/28702/..._2017.pdf#ROTW

Based on the boating rules of the Sate of California, can you point out which specifically was violated?

My intention is not to be a jerk. However, I am pointing out that there is "Being in Violation", and there is "Being Rude". The latter sucks, but unless there is a regulation, ordinance or law, there is nothing prohibiting "I didn't appreciate that" behavior.

Unfortunately, that is the position most law enforcement and military organizations are going to take.

And before we start arguing about "wake"....there are really only two aspects of creating a wake.

1) A wake in a designated "No Wake" zone (No Wake does not need to be specifically posted, if, for example, there are published regulations such as a specific distance from an object, such as a beach, or a swimming area.

2) Damage resulting from wake. Potential for damage is not the same as incurring actual damage.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lollygag1 View Post

A couple of years ago I recall a CG boat blasting out of Block Island and creating all sorts of chaos to the folks who were rafted up.
They would have too!! They don't sleep on the boat, or even near the boat. If they get called in the middle of the night, they need to wake up, get dressed, jump in a vehicle, take a drive from the CG station down to the dock at Champlins, fire up the boat, then creep around half of the mooring field, then out the channel in the salt pond, and out the main channel.

It would take them 30 minutes from the initial call until they got to the Red Buoy outside the breakwall if they went at headway speed.

When boats are dragging the harbor master and even BoatUS get up on plane in the salt pond.

Either last year, or the year before a captain on a 40-50 ft sportfish was having a heart attack. His crew came into the salt pond doing 25 knots all the way to the ambulance sitting at Paynes dock at 3:00am. We got the snot kicked out of us in the anchorage. One hell of a way to get woken up on a relatively glassy night.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:00 PM   #31
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"sarcasm font on" The Navy owns SD Bay, you are lucky to be able to use it.
"sarcasm font off"
The reality is, they aren't very courteous nor do they care if your boat gets rocked. They are on the job and for many of those smaller boat they are just young kids who know little about pleasure boating.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:35 PM   #32
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My gut feel is that waking is caused by those who have not "worked their way up" to the boat they have.

If you have spent any time in a canoe, or jon boat as a kid, a runabout as a teen or young adult, you know what it is like to be waked by a bigger boat. And therefore may be more considerate when you have your big wake throwing trophy boat in your later years.

Boat shows, boat dealers, and boat manufacturers all tout 30'+ boats as starter boats essentially creating Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack style boat owners. (Notice I didn't say boaters.)

In the military, yeah well, most in the military are well trained and professional, while simultaneously immature and testosterone fueled. Most veterans have all sorts of stories they can tell while they were doing dumb things on active duty. While I don't advocate "boys will be boys" as an excuse, I will verify that it does indeed happen.

Then some people are just jerks.

I broke the eye piece on my Fujinons, when they crashed to the deck when waked. More my fault for not putting them back in their designated holder, than it is the fully laden crew boat that waked me.
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Old 02-17-2021, 04:22 PM   #33
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USCG
RULE 13
Overtaking


(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in Rules 4 through 18, any vessel
overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being
overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with
another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam; that
is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at
night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither
of her sidelights.
(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another,
she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not
make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these
Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until
she is finally past and clear.
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Old 02-17-2021, 05:23 PM   #34
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:41 PM   #35
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You did not mention the donuts part.

When I wrote to the Navy PIO, I left that part out, as I thought it would be piling on. As it was a Saturday morning, I am guessing the crews were reservists.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:43 PM   #36
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So, who has not been violently waked?
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:59 PM   #37
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Greetings,
Mr. mp. Exactly! I'm wondering what the point of this whole thread is...The fact that the military runs around at high speed (sorta their job) or the pilot wasn't paying attention and is blaming someone else for their own inattentiveness?
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgarriso View Post
USCG
RULE 13
Overtaking


(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in Rules 4 through 18, any vessel
overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being
overtaken.
(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with
another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam; that
is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at
night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither
of her sidelights.
(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another,
she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not
make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these
Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until
she is finally past and clear.

Not sure what any of this has to do with wakes....
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cks View Post
You’re right about an overtaking boat. The roll will toss EVERYTHING. It’s awful. That’s why I like the distance. It gives me time to turn bow in. One has to turn at least 90 degrees to accomplish this. It takes time.
I often found when being waked in a confined channel, as was often the case, as the wake from an overtaking boat comes at you from the stern quarter, rather than try to turn into it, it was easier and quicker to just bear away, throttle off, and present the stern to it. Anything but take it beam on, for sure. With a fast boat approaching from ahead, you see them much sooner and can plan for it better, and as the wave comes at you from a for'd quarter, it is quite easy to just turn to almost bow on, throttle off a bit, and take it at a slight angle on the bow.
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Old 02-17-2021, 09:09 PM   #40
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I often found when being waked in a confined channel, as was often the case, as the wake from an overtaking boat comes at you from the stern quarter, rather than try to turn into it, it was easier and quicker to just bear away, throttle off, and present the stern to it. Anything but take it beam on, for sure. With a fast boat approaching from ahead, you see them much sooner and can plan for it better, and as the wave comes at you from a for'd quarter, it is quite easy to just turn to almost bow on, throttle off a bit, and take it at a slight angle on the bow.
. Surely Navy vessels on maneuvers should be accorded some 'leeway".
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