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Old 08-16-2020, 06:28 PM   #61
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Surely, over-zealous environmentalists are not making babies at all. ... My parents, nevertheless, had four children but only two grandchildren and only two great-grandchildren. ... So goes the European stock, but Europeans are hardly trying to preserve their race. ... The Pierces are just barely hanging in there. Over-population is not our fault!
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Old 08-16-2020, 10:53 PM   #62
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Back in the day the commercial fisherman controlled the seal and sea lion population. Worked just fine.
Yes and the whale population was larger. These days the food chain is disrupted. In our oceans a common sight was herring balls, sought after by the salmon as well as the offshore buyers with suitcases of cash.
The Fraser river salmon runs were large. Then mount St Helens blew and the following year they stopped returning via Juan de Fuca, instead via over the top of Van Isle. Then we have the farm salmon stocks killing the native salmon.

So a cull of a predator like sea lions which other than potlatch stew and whale food, have no useful purpose, so go to it, cull them.
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:37 AM   #63
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California sea lion is the common name for zalophus californianus. It doesn't mean the animals come from California. Their range is from SE Ak to central Mx including the Gulf of California. To say they came from California because that is part of their common name makes as much sense as saying they are related to lions.

Wow, didn't know that. And I'm kinda bummed about it really..Because we Oregonians love to blame Californians for everything wrong in the West.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:21 AM   #64
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...my parents, nevertheless, had four children but only two grandchildren and only two great-grandchildren. ... So goes the european stock, but europeans are hardly trying to preserve their race. ... The pierces are just barely hanging in there. Over-population is not our fault!
q.e.d.
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:14 PM   #65
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Nature has always and will always find a way. The big question while talking about overpopulation is who will control it. What person will be voted in? Who will be allowed to reproduce? Who makes the rules? How can anyone know how many people this planet can sustain? It reminds me of Mow. It sounds like a power grab. It sounds communist. It sounds evil..... But what do I know. I'm just an idiot that thinks a family is the one of the greatest gifts from god and should not be controled by any government. That being said. Save the seals! Save the fish! People worried about Overpopulation could start by killing themselves and not controling, taxing the rest of us as they virtue signal about what others should do to save a planet we know little about. This is all only an opinion
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:50 PM   #66
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Overpopulation could start by killing themselves and not controling, taxing the rest of us as they virtue signal about what others should do to save a planet we know little about. This is all only an opinion
"only" ... single, solitary.
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Old 08-17-2020, 10:53 PM   #67
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This is great! Keep it up guys! I’m subscribing for the ride. Now if I could just find more beer in the fridge
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Old 08-18-2020, 12:15 AM   #68
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Volunteer needed to fit condoms on horny sea lions. Problem solved.
Can`t wait for RTF`s gif.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:47 AM   #69
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Sigh...

Yes, I am responsible for it all.
There! Now you will 'Feel' better Murray, confession is so good for the soul!.

Now can we discuss individual communities investing in small effective nucular power generation units?
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:55 AM   #70
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Back in the day the commercial fisherman controlled the seal and sea lion population. Worked just fine.
Yep, provided shotgun ammo by the fish and game. The same issue with those damn cute little 'sea otters' and lets add the huge increase of whales, all consuming tons and tons of fish and shell fish.

Bounty on otters, ammo for the sea lions, and let the Eskimos and Japanese have whales on demand!
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Old 08-20-2020, 12:27 PM   #71
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WOW all these PHDs committing on the condition of the Columbia River salmon stock. Yet most here have never been to the Columbia.

The current condition of the the salmon stock in the Columbia River is due to the mis-management of the resource by Washington, Oregon and the Feds (native folks).

Environmental Waco terrorists have also made it hard to properly management the system as they want all hatcheries closed and dams removed. The tribes are refusing to clip fins on salmon as they want their fish identified as "wild" salmon when in fact they are hatchery fish. One only has to go above the Bonneville Dam to see all the nets in the water with fish rotting as the nets are not checked every day.

Again mis-management of the resource.

For the record, I do not have a PHD........
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:31 PM   #72
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Meanwhile, as you guys are denying humans (particularly of the immigrant European type) are mainly responsible for falling salmon stocks, an even bigger problem looms:

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resou...-acidification

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esearch-shows/
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:45 PM   #73
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Meanwhile, as you guys are denying humans (particularly of the immigrant European type) are mainly responsible for falling salmon stocks, an even bigger problem looms:

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resou...-acidification

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esearch-shows/
It would be interesting to know what percentage of the CO2 in the ocean is produced by the ocean's inhabitants.

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Old 08-20-2020, 02:06 PM   #74
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California sea lion is the common name for zalophus californianus. It doesn't mean the animals come from California. Their range is from SE Ak to central Mx including the Gulf of California. To say they came from California because that is part of their common name makes as much sense as saying they are related to lions.

Yes, but some did. 25+ years ago, in an effort to limit the fishkill at the Ballard Locks, sea lions (remember Herschel?) were trapped in large steel cages, tagged, and relocated to Northern California (Bay area maybe). Some of them returned to the Locks in two weeks time.

While awaiting transport to sunny CA, the cages were tied off to mooring bouys outside Shilshole Bay Marina. Woe be to sailors in our Wed nite beercan races who passed close downwind. It was an epic olfactory experience.
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Old 08-20-2020, 02:14 PM   #75
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OK, my memory has faded and not everything I just posted is correct. It took a month to return from the Channel Islands and two weeks to return from the WA coast.

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Old 08-20-2020, 02:25 PM   #76
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Meanwhile, as you guys are denying humans (particularly of the immigrant European type) are mainly responsible for falling salmon stocks, an even bigger problem looms:

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resou...-acidification

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esearch-shows/
Uh Murray, I won't suggest you're trolling off subject.

You are aware that earth's atmospheric levels of CO2 during the past few thousand years are at a 100 million year low? Even if man weren't adding CO2 to the air there is only one way for CO2 and air temps to go, up. Stable they have never been.

Now back to the Columbia River issues as raised by ASD.
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Old 08-20-2020, 02:39 PM   #77
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If everyone is convinced that the problem is someone else's fault, things will just get worse. If everyone takes responsibility for their own actions, does what they can, and just makes incremental changes in their consumption habits things will either get better; or at least get worse more slowly.

We can't use "we don't fully understand the problem", or "we are afraid of un-intended consequences" as excuses to do nothing. We understand enough to know that we are having a negative effect on the planet by stressing certain links in the food chain and creating too much CO2.
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:12 PM   #78
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Yes, I believe salmon can be " transplanted to different rivers and they migrate "past" areas of other salmon...but Columbia river salmon I doubt are remotely connected with or travel with Alaska salmon....



If anything, the Columbia River Salmon follow the Japanese Current past Alaska and BC to Washington...but again I don't think they travel that uniformly.

This is untrue. Historically the SEAK Troll fishery intercepted large numbers of Columbia River Chinook as well as Canadian stocks.

See page 70, this document specifically for impacts on Columbia River Chinook.

https://www.psc.org/download/35/chin...ok-19-2-v1.pdf

In addition, the SEAK seine and gillnet fisheries intercepted Skeen and Fraser River sockeye in large numbers.

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Old 08-21-2020, 04:43 PM   #79
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Sea lions have lost their natural fear of predation, so killing a few in plain sight of other sea lions restores their aversion to being around humans. Likewise bears which have lost their fear of humans are very dangerous...

The coastal swimming beaches in Southern California have been taken over by sea lions, and fear of being attacked has driven human use of those beaches away. When I was in the Navy in 1973 it wasn't the case, the sea lions stayed out of the swimming breakwaters.

The dams have stopped the salmon where the sea lions can congregate and eat too many of them. Way complex issue, no answers here...
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:44 PM   #80
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This is an extremely complex challenge. But one simple law is you can't harvest the prey without harvesting the predators, if you expect to have any prey left. Yes. nature does usually balances things but at extreme swings. But again, we know that thousands of species became extinct even before humans reared their ugly heads.

Personally, I think the major problem the world has is too many people. This too will correct itself as humans are part of nature not separate from it. Covid 10 is just one of the future results of too many people.
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