Watch for dead sea lion bodies

[Rufus]

Michigan is currently revisiting the 150 year old agreement with the five indigenous tribes surrounding Lake Michigan. Salmon and Whitefish populations have been shrinking dramatically in recent years. Looks like the tribes and sport fishermen groups will come out on top with the already tiny commercial fishing industry being nearly put out of business. Good thing Sea Lions weren’t introduced along with the Salmon back in the 60’s. Of course zebra mussels invasive plant life and Asian Carp are wrecking the eco system anyway. I wonder if Sea Lions would care to dine on Carp with a side order of zebra mussels and Asian Gobies.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

Agree....in the late 80s, early 90s scientists thought just a 2 degree rise in the Pacific forced crab to the Bearing Sea and salmon to proliferate. When I left in 92, crab was coming back closer to Kodiak and salmon was declining because the temp swing was downward.

yup we get to thank "El Nino" for this one. You mentioned drift nets in the early 80's it was estimated that the total length of drift nets on any given night would circle the earth twice...


Back when the coastal territorial limit was only 3 miles we would do fisheries patrols between the mouth of SJD and the Cali-Oregon boarder on any given day we would count at least 100 if not a 130 Russian fishing boats and processors. Some of the boats had way more antennas then necessary

 

[Crossroads]

WRT the origins of salmon caught in SE Alaska saltwater, this historical novel offers a compelling story that many of them historically came from the Columbia River System.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2348841.The_Last_Fisherman

The books main characters are composites of men known to the author who fished there from the Great Depression thru the later 20th century. Some of the more successful depended on knowledge of when specific populations would show up in specific locations during the season. They had no idea where they came from or went to, just repeatable annual catches of distinct populations of fish. Repeatable until the dams were built on the Columbia and Snake rivers, and these populations blinked out, not to be seen again.

Anecdotal? yes. Coincedental? perhaps. But pretty granular details from those who saw it happen. And a fun read if you enjoy that coast.

 

[O C Diver]

Murray,

Not saying your first nation would lie to you, but that's a good story with zero proof.

The other thing you will find if you study the history of species is that there are cycles in nature, not this "every thing was perfect before the white man showed up." While it makes for a good Michener novel, that's just not how nature works.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

WRT the origins of salmon caught in SE Alaska saltwater, this historical novel offers a compelling story that many of them historically came from the Columbia River System.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2348841.The_Last_Fisherman

The books main characters are composites of men known to the author who fished there from the Great Depression thru the later 20th century. Some of the more successful depended on knowledge of when specific populations would show up in specific locations during the season. They had no idea where they came from or went to, just repeatable annual catches of distinct populations of fish. Repeatable until the dams were built on the Columbia and Snake rivers, and these populations blinked out, not to be seen again.

Anecdotal? yes. Coincedental? perhaps. But pretty granular details from those who saw it happen. And a fun read if you enjoy that coast.

I am probably never going to read that book...though I might.

Just my knowledge of salmon and Alaska geography and the North Pacific.....I seriously dobt the Columbia had that much effect on Alakan salmon.

Even on the East Coast while the Chesapeake is huge.... it doesnt account for all the many species up and down the East Coast....the Hudson, the Delaware and many other river systems play their own parts for adromonous fish populations along the East Coast.

Alaska is pretty darn big on its own.

 

[SoWhat]

The only significant improvements can come after population control, for which there seems little appetite. There is no point in attacking the size of our "carbon footprint" if we continue to produce more "carbon feet."

Covid 19 is classical population control but I don't foresee any significant improvements following. Pretty sure the Chinese spent years enforcing the 1 child policy. Wasn't too popular or successful.

I'm going to spend the afternoon on the starboard bunk studying the matter. I'm thinking we need to form a committee to start.

 

[Codger2]

Didn't work in Yellowstone when all the wolves were killed off. Now that they're back, the eco system has really improved.

 

[BruceK]

Who knows if sea lion tastes good?

 

[psneeld]

My understanding is removing the wolves caused the elk population to explode. Maybe sea lion to salmon comparison.

But then Yellosrone suffered from the elk explosion in loss of birch tress that affected creature's like beavers and river fish, etc....

As was posted earlier...every population issue and subsequent fix creates new issues one way or another.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Murray as 2018 there were an estimated 4000 sea lions in the Columbia. Most but not all are California sea lions and like many others things from California they raise havoc in the PNW once they move here. I'm sure if you can convince the provincial government to accept the sea lions, The state and feds would gladly transport about 2000 to the mouth of the Skeena.

California sea lion is the common name for zalophus californianus. It doesn't mean the animals come from California. Their range is from SE Ak to central Mx including the Gulf of California. To say they came from California because that is part of their common name makes as much sense as saying they are related to lions.

 

[slowgoesit]

Please tell me he left and we can get back to reasonable posts . . .

 

[Fletcher500]

Murray cares about the environment, and so do I. No easy answers, and nothing will ever get solved on a web forum. We are all squared off in our corners, more than ever these days.

 

[psneeld]

Who says the rest of us don't care about the environment?

I have been involved with environmental concerns since I was a kid and my careers followed that lead somewhat. As was pointed out in an earlier post....strong believers in anything often reap the benefits of what they condemn.

Their kinds of comments, the the entire Covid section ....show too many here are all or nothing on opinion where no one has a good answer.

It's getting harder to appreciate being here on TF because of it.

 

[Fletcher500]

PS, I don’t believe I have ever interacted with someone who knows more than you do, whatever the subject. You stay logged in 24/7 and are the resident subject matter expert on...well everything.

 

[psneeld]

PS, I don’t believe I have ever interacted with someone who knows more than you do, whatever the subject. You stay logged in 24/7 and are the resident subject matter expert on...well everything.

Yep, most subject matter about boats is foreign to me. Even when there are a lot of subjects I barely post on if at all...you fail to notice.

Sorry it offends you.

If you want me to stop posting I will.

 

[MurrayM]

Who knows if sea lion tastes good?

A specialty of the Haisla First Nation where I live serves sea lion stew at feasts and ceremonies. Everybody gets a second bowl. Very rich & tasty...the kind of food that leaves a lingering warmth in your belly well after eating it

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The only significant improvements can come after population control, for which there seems little appetite. There is no point in attacking the size of our "carbon footprint" if we continue to produce more "carbon feet."

And yet that is one of the subjects (along with politics and religion) that causes instant anxiety. People will talk about "green" environmental solutions all day long and, although there is disagreement, refuse to talk about the greenest thing a person can do. Don't procreate. Simple. My carbon footprint is miniscule compared to somebody my age with 15 grandchildren. And theirs will continue to grow after they are gone.

But I can hear the wailing begin. What about the Constitutional right of grandmothers to slobber over slobbering babies?!! Wahhh! Kill the sealions!!

Drifting off topic? Not really.

 

[hollywood8118]

I figure it this way, the marine population we will save is the one that taste good


Salmon= Yummy
Seal = not so much


Salmon will win.


Murray, if seals tasted good there would be none left..



I was told that the whale eaters dont really like the taste.. give them a burger vs. whale and they will take the burger. But the whale is what they had. Now they cull a whale now and then for

" Heritage" purposes.. when the greenies loose a court battle.
I'm all for tribal subsistence fishing, but when the tribes move into a area and decimate the fishery as a business I call bullshit.. definitely they are not " environmental stewards".
HOLLYWOOD

 

[AlaskaProf]

WRT the origins of salmon caught in SE Alaska saltwater, this historical novel offers a compelling story that many of them historically came from the Columbia River System.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2348841.The_Last_Fisherman
.

Out of print, $30 for a used paperback.

 

[Crossroads]

Yikes! Ten years or so ago I found a copy thru an internet search in a used bookstore in Eureka CA. Luckily it wasnt $30 then. Maybe I shouldnt have given it away.

 

[O C Diver]

A specialty of the Haisla First Nation where I live serves sea lion stew at feasts and ceremonies. Everybody gets a second bowl. Very rich & tasty...the kind of food that leaves a lingering warmth in your belly well after eating it

Maybe we should harvest them just like salmon. Help feed the poor and hungry with over populated species.

Ted

 

[MurrayM]

Maybe we should harvest them just like salmon. Help feed the poor and hungry with over populated species.

Ted

Hmmm...people outnumber sea lions:

New and improved Solyent Green!

Made from the tenderest cuts of late aged fat marbled Floridians!!

 

[sunchaser]

This from a man whose electric supplier is "BC Hydro."

Good point. Or as Murray well knows Kitimat's existence is due to hydro power for the Al refinery. Both of course are great projects. Or Peace River hydro plants anyone?

 

[La Mer]

Believe me, you have finally pushed the limit.

Please mods, delete my post, ban me and just know this guy pushed me too far.

Sir, Welcome to the club !
I’m with you on that

 

[MurrayM]

This is why I am not in the Covid discussions......

For as often as you hack on the US and Americans....

Come to Florida in the winter when you can more easily catch the not so quick maple leaf covered tourists.

Believe me, you have finally pushed the limit.

Please mods, delete my post, ban me and just know this guy pushed me too far.

You've got to be kidding?

Sorry my picking Florida (was a light hearted jab at Ted) sent you over the edge.

Maybe Spicy Spaniards, Jerk Jamaicans, or Frozen Crunchy Canadians on a stick would have been funnier?

 

[O C Diver]

Hmmm...people outnumber sea lions:

New and improved Solyent Green!

Made from the tenderest cuts of late aged fat marbled Floridians!!

Is Solyent some Kitmat word or spelling? Didn't realize you contemplated cannibalism. Are things really that primal up there?

Ted

 

[MurrayM]

Is Solyent some Kitmat word or spelling? Didn't realize you contemplated cannibalism. Are things really that primal up there?

Ted

Good catch!

I was pretty close though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

In the year 2022, the cumulative effects of overpopulation, pollution and some apparent climate catastrophe have caused severe worldwide shortages of food, water and housing. There are 40 million people in New York City alone, where only the city's elite can afford spacious apartments, clean water and natural food, and even then at horrendously high prices...

Soylent Industries, which derives its name from a combination of "soy" and "lentil", controls the food supply of half of the world and sells the artificially produced wafers, including "Soylent Red" and "Soylent Yellow". Their latest product is the far more flavorful and nutritious "Soylent Green", advertised as being made from ocean plankton, but is in short supply. As a result of the weekly supply bottlenecks, the hungry masses regularly riot, and they are brutally removed from the streets by means of police vehicles that scoop the rioters with large shovels and dump them within the vehicle's container...

Thorn boards a truck transporting bodies from the euthanasia center to a recycling plant, where the secret is revealed – human corpses are being converted into Soylent Green...

Hmmmm...in the year 2022...predictive movie????????

*Edit* Warning!
Above comment to be consumed as a humorous aside, accompanied by a wink and elbow jab. Please Do Not Take Literally!

 

[O C Diver]

Good catch!

I was pretty close though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green



Hmmmm...in the year 2022????????

Probably not going to happen. Those that can afford to leave NYC are doing so. Between the covid, civil unrest, cuts in law enforcement, and punitive taxation, it's headed in the wrong direction.

The world is overpopulated, maybe 300%. The day of reckoning with mother nature is coming. Just as you found recently with the reemergence of covid in BC, the population is too mobile and will bring it everywhere as they flee.

Ted

 

[AlaskaProf]

Pretty sure the Chinese spent years enforcing the 1 child policy. Wasn't too popular or successful.

Clearly, the downstream effects weren't given sufficient consideration. Always a problem in a rigidly hierarchical system, when the clear thinker may not only lack authority, but lack the ability to communicate his issues. Seems the mandarins in charge never considered the diminished workforce, the lack of old-age insurance, the potentially revolutionary pool of frustrated young men unable to find mates.


Smarter economists than I have postulated that the way to control birthrates is to provide for general affluence, or at least financial security. It seems to work, look at Western Europe and North America, where for a couple decades, birthrates have been well below the "replacement rate".

 

[MurrayM]

I make a joke about Soylent Green because eating sea lions was trotted out as a solution for dealing with that overpopulated species, and things unravel this fast?

Hope everyone gets outside today...think I'll go for a boat romp