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Old 03-26-2021, 08:57 AM   #81
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I wonder if the two devices, PLB and MOB/AIS will or should ever be combined. I'm using the terms PLB to mean a mini EPIRB and MOB/AIS a device to alert the watch and nearby boats with AIS that someone is overboard and make the search easier and more effective.

One should be manually activated, the other can and should be automatically activated.

A PLB being a mini EPIRB communicating with a global satellite system we don't want false alarms going off. If not quickly cancelled it could trigger a wide area or possibly global response. For those reasons the PLB is manually activated. An on switch and due to needing to broadcast to satellites an external antenna that needs to be extended.

A MOB/AIS is local, a false alarm is not nearly as much of a problem. A MOB/AIS can be activated automatically. Often by immersion in water. Sometimes a good soaking from wave spray will set it off.

Additionally I see the need for and use of each device differently.

A MOB/AIS device could be worn by anyone aboard. For those very concerned about safety it could be worn anytime on deck away from the dock.

A PLB belongs in the ditch bag. Ready to go into the life raft or dingy either as a replacement/backup for or in addition to the EPIRB. Other uses for a PLB would be a solo sailor wearing it 100% of the time. They have no one else aboard to assist if they go overboard. And for those of us who like to explore wilderness by dingy or boots. We're away from the mother ship and in areas where calling for help in an emergency on the cell phone isn't going to work.

Think about how you're going to handle a MOB situation on your boat, with your regular crew, in your cruising area.

My plans for recovering MOBs. I leave the plotter's tracking on 100% of the time underway and know how to use the plotter's MOB function. When someone goes overboard there are things that need to be done. In need to notify SAR authorities, put out a distress call to nearby boats, ready the recovery gear. There are usually just two of us aboard and now one is overboard. All of those duties fall to one person. In darkness, restricted visibility, rough weather it gets tougher.

While I'm making the distress calls I can set the plotter's MOB and turn the boat back on it's track line. I use the autopilot to free me to get the recovery gear ready. If my crew was wearing a MOB/AIS search is easy. If not I have the plotter's MOB waypoint and my track line to set me up for the search.
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Old 03-26-2021, 09:02 AM   #82
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I disagree a PLB belongs in a ditch bag, unless you also have ones for a crewmember or two.

I also don't think separating them has to be done. A MOB is often a USCG/SAR alert anyhow, so dual notification is not a bad thing.

An auto switch for AIS and a manual for the PLB is easily incorporated in a single device, maybe the antenna systems are a bit of an issue, but that sounds like a relatively simple fix.

I still wonder what the stats are and why there isn't a bigger push for something with dual function.
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Old 03-26-2021, 11:10 AM   #83
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My post was not a statement of how it should be, rather thinking it through. Your experience in SAR and assistance is notable. So I've got some questions for you.
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I disagree a PLB belongs in a ditch bag, unless you also have ones for a crewmember or two.
Please expand on this. For my situation I have an auto activated EPIRB in a float free hydrostatic release. I don't have a life raft. I have a RIB on the swim step secured in such a way that it can be deployed in an emergency with a single cut of a knife. The ditch bag is stowed in the lazarette. My plan is an orderly abandon ship where I have time to get the EPIRB and activate it as we board the RIB. The PLB is backup if that plan fails for any reason. It will work if for some reason I can't get to the EPRIB or it does not float free and activate or it floats free but drifts off without me. The PLB will be with me in the RIB when SAR comes if the EPIRB isn't.

Because I boat near shore and inshore I find a MOB/AIS device the ticket to getting an overboard crew member back quickly.
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A MOB is often a USCG/SAR alert anyhow, so dual notification is not a bad thing.
Yes, on or near waters where the PLB is registered. My concerns are in regard to a false alarm where multiple, possibly global response is triggered. I am registered with the FCC. I decide to cruise internationally. At this point I am ignorant of how the system works. Not so much the technical function, but the agency and personnel response. The PLB sends out a distress via satellite link. To whom? If a US agency then they have to alert the SAR agency in the area where I am in distress. For my personal boat that could be the remote areas of Canada meaning CCG. For the deliveries I do it could be the Mexican Navy. For those doing more remote passages such as blue water transits or the Northwest Passage the response to a false alarm could be enormously expensive. For those reasons I want the PLB if worn by myself or crew to be manually activated. I still want the MOB/AIS device to be automatic.
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Old 03-26-2021, 12:07 PM   #84
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Every situation is different...so no "system" works for everyone, all the time.

Several rules generally apply in survival.

1. Things never go as planned, otherwise most of the time they wouldn't turn into survival situations.

2. Because things aren't going as planned, often auto devices don't auto, and you are in a survival situation with what you and your partners have on them, not what was "supposed" to be available.


As far as a MOB device being auto and not alerting the world combined with a PLB that is manually activated? Simple engineering fixes and appropriate.

Hard to know for sure how any worldwide system works, but I believe all countries participating in the Cospas/Sarsat system relays any ELT/EPIRB/PLB signal to the registered nation and simultaneously to the nearest SAR resources. There are multiple websites that explain the system much better...but using a properly registered on will get the right actions taken. Whether or not rescue resources are available, can respond due to weather or even close by depends on a lot.
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Old 03-26-2021, 12:09 PM   #85
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We cruise internationally. Feel in that setting a life raft is a must. Think both AIS and epirb are necessary. We have
Eripb on the boat and clipped.
Epirb in the ditchbag.
These will signal reliably for 48h
AIS and PLB attached to each personal flotation device. They have crotch straps and sea hoods along with light, mirror etc.
One exposure suit.
One MOM-8
Ditchbag (long list of what’s in it ).
All are registered as required.
Also a Spot (will be replaced with a Go).
Life sling

Friends with similar programs have similar set ups with slight variations. Expectations are the boat will be more effective than a outside party for MOB. Even with AIS or a gps coordinates spot on the screens a MOM is necessary for locating the MOB. In any kind of waves locating a MOB without that inflated pole sticking up is nearly impossible. Hence the MOM-8 or similar device. Have no expectations of a SARS response outside 200m. And believe the old saw “by the time they get there you’ve either figured it out or someone is dead”. Believe others vessels not SARS are your equally likely saviors.
Getting someone out of the water even with a swim platform is nearly impossible without mechanical aid. Our engine hoist served on the prior boat. Next will have some from of block and tackle for this function. Hence the life sling.
Evacuation can be necessary very quickly or slowly. You just don’t know. Our plans and training take this into account.
Personally still think coastal is more dangerous than passage. Delay in outside response time can prove lethal. Hence believe even inside 200m you need to be self reliant enough to allow for a response to be meaningful.
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Old 03-26-2021, 03:50 PM   #86
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Thank you for the good response!


Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Every situation is different...so no "system" works for everyone, all the time.

Several rules generally apply in survival.
1. Things never go as planned, otherwise most of the time they wouldn't turn into survival situations.

2. Because things aren't going as planned, often auto devices don't auto, and you are in a survival situation with what you and your partners have on them, not what was "supposed" to be available.


As far as a MOB device being auto and not alerting the world combined with a PLB that is manually activated? Simple engineering fixes and appropriate.

Hard to know for sure how any worldwide system works, but I believe all countries participating in the Cospas/Sarsat system relays any ELT/EPIRB/PLB signal to the registered nation and simultaneously to the nearest SAR resources. There are multiple websites that explain the system much better...but using a properly registered on will get the right actions taken. Whether or not rescue resources are available, can respond due to weather or even close by depends on a lot.
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