Training and Licensing

[garychurch]

After 4 years of cruising the East Coast, Bahamas and Caribbean I am a strong supporter of mandatory training and licensing of boat operators.

The reason are listed below and are a combination of ignorance and rudeness. It seems many boaters leave common sense and courtesy at the docks when they begin boating.

1. Many center consoles, heavily engined, love to blast through anchorages snd mooring fields disregarding wakes, occasional swimmers and small dinghies that may be underway.

2. Many recreational fishing boats claim right of way anchoring inside marked channels. Some insist they take right of way precedent because they are trolling.

3. Many “party boats” play loud music in anchorages and mooring fields with associated drinking and yelling until wee hours oblivious to others.

4. Many small power boaters love to zig and zag at high speed in close proximity to other boats leaving their intentions unknown. Seems that right of way rules and good judgement fail them.

5. Many boaters do not actually monitor their marine radios even though they are sprouting VHF antennas.

6. Too many dinghies run through mooring fields and anchorages at high speed at night and without lights.

As a general rule I stay off the ICW and away from other popular recreational boating locations on weekends and holidays where it seems like a dangerous free for all.

I am sure others could add to this list. The problem is the issues identified are not uncommon which is a major concern. In fact with the growing popularity of boating during the pandemic these concerns may be trending.

While nobody is without an occasional error or lapse of judgement, I would solicit other forum member views.

 

[Tingum]

Training and licensing

Amen!

 

[Comodave]

Agree completely but all it takes to go boating in most states is money, knowledge be damned...

 

[O C Diver]

While I agree with the OP, what exactly is licensing going to do about any of those things. In case you haven't noticed speeding on the highway is against the law. Pretty safe to assume 99+% of drivers have a license, but that doesn't stop speeding and all the other moving violations.

Ted

 

[Iggy]

Yep!

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Training and licensing will not change anything.

pete

 

[mvweebles]

This is an enforcement issue, not an education one. Where common sense or common decency fails, there are regulations on speed. I frequently transit a popular stretch of the ICW and do not see this as a widespread problem. In short, no idea how a license resolves this - as the saying goes, "you can't fix stupid" (or inconsideration).

BTW - the COLREGS are frequently misinterpreted and opportunistically interpreted by many (most?) boaters, even experienced ones. Center Consoles and Jetskiers do not have a corner on this market.

There really is only one rule - Rule 1 paraphrased: if a collision can be avoided, the captain is obligated to do so. Even if annoying behavior by another boater and an owner's heavily built steel hull makes it tempting to do otherwise.

 

[psneeld]

I agree that enforcement should play a bigger role....


And as much as I hate non marine comparisons..... with today's cell phone alerting of speed traps on highways....some still speed and those that my slow down still drive like clowns.




So to some...even the threat of enforcement does way less than it does.

 

[sunchaser]

Youth, rum punch, gold chains, ganja, bikinis, hormones and Bob Marley music all combine to throw common sense out the window. Sure wish I was there again.

 

[Hippocampus]

Many of my pucker moments have been produced by licensed captains let alone recreational boaters. Some examples
Lying to a mooring bouy in North Sound BVI a 60+’ charter cat picks up the ball next to me. Mooring field is limited to 50’ and under. I’m chatting and having drinks in the cockpit of a friend’s boat nearby with my back to my boat. He says “let’s jump in the dinghies and get to your boat “ explaining what’s going on. We go over to the cat and tell captain what he has done is unsafe. He screams “I’m a licensed captain F off. “ We call Dockmaster at the bitter end on VHF. She sees what’s going on and tells us to use our dinghies to push him away as he’s swinging into my boat. She comes out in a whaler and gets into an argument with the hired captain. Eventually she disconnects the pendant from his boat forcing him to leave.
Leaving cape cod canal to enter buzzards bay. Large sport fish is behind us and overtaking vessel. They are well in excess of posted speed limit and we hear Army Corp tell them to slow down on VHF. There are standing waves at the exit from the canal so we position more to the side with intention to angle slightly to center to get through those waves. We slow down wanting the assumed charter fish boat go through first. See the classic bunch of guys in the cockpit and one up on the tuna tower running the boat as they go by. They go totally air borne several times as they go through the waves having not slowed down at all. Then total silence. Watch them drift into the rock breakwater to starboard. Listen to them screaming on VHF that they lost power and need rescue. They had swamped our boat filling the cockpit. Fortunately that drained quickly.
So there’s idiots out there. Some are uneducated, some drunk, some just egocentric arrogant butt holes. They’re on big boats and small, licensed and not. Power and sail. Commercial and recreational. Don’t want us to go like Europe where someone who has crossed an ocean needs a “certificate of competence “ to operate a vessel. Have no problem with the idea that one could take a video on a phone documenting gross violations then upload it to local law enforcement or the CG. They could then pursue owner or operator and discipline as is appropriate. In short we could police ourselves.

 

[Shrew]

I am a strong supporter of mandatory training and licensing of boat operators.

2. Many recreational fishing boats claim right of way anchoring inside marked channels. Some insist they take right of way precedent because they are trolling.

4. Many small power boaters love to zig and zag at high speed in close proximity to other boats leaving their intentions unknown. Seems that right of way rules and good judgement fail them.

I think we could all use a little training. There is no such thing as "Right of Way" in the Col Regs. There is only "Give Way Vessel" and "Stand-On Vessel". Right of Way is a concept associated with driving automobiles.

Yes, it is a big difference. This is not a semantics game.

 

[Shrew]

Incidentally....

1) an anchored vessel IS the Stand-On vessel, regardless of where they are anchored. You cannot 'Give Way' when you are not Under Way.

2) Zig zagging IS giving way. You are holding course, they are navigating around you and actively changing course to avoid collision. That is literally Giving Way. You are not actively changing course, that is literally Standing On. There is no law against zigging through boat traffic. There is only collision and not a collision. Not all jurisdictions have a law about proximity to another vessel and making a wake.

 

[CaptTom]

Just to reiterate a point I've made before...

Education is a good thing. Requiring it makes perfect sense. And it lasts a lifetime.

A "License" is renewable, making it a revenue stream for the state. I don't think it would take very long before legislators realized they'd developed a huge cash cow to extract funds from "wealthy boaters" who, being a minority, are unlikely to affect the legislator's chances of re-election.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[psneeld]

From USA Navrules


Rule 14 - Head-on Situation

(d) Notwithstanding Rule 14(a), a power-driven vessel operating on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate.

 

[SteveK]

Have we have become our parents. What has changed?

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Roughly one-third(?) of states require adult boaters to have a boating safety certificate or something more involved such as a "boating license", however it is being phased in many places with older folks grandfathered in.

Of course the NASBLA safety course and similar covers the basic basics and won't resolve many of the OP's complaints.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

It's worth noting that neither fishing/trolling nor anchoring in a "narrow channel" are prohibited, but are simply to be avoided and shall not impede the passage of other vessels. IOW would be enforced in an actual incident but probably not otherwise.

Also, I understood that for a while, enforcement/checks on unlit/poorly equipped dinghies was an emphasis for the USCG districts, or for some of them.

 

[psneeld]

https://www.boat-ed.com/boating_law/



In the USA, 36 states have taken the important step of mandating some form of educational requirements for operating a boat or PWC on state waters.

 

[ancora]

No one has mentioned oblivious sailboaters who have no grasp of situational awareness. Perfect name for a sailboat, "Oblivious."

 

[O C Diver]

In this day and age of online learning and testing, it would seem a simple matter to require an online test for license renewals. Between multiple choice questions, pictures and videos, it would seem pretty easy to evaluate people. Do it at home after submitting your existing license number and bring the completion code with you. There are initially 40 questions with an 80% pass rate. If you fail, before retesting, you must review your mistakes before you can test again. Each time you fail 20 more questions are added to your test as you obviously don't remember the rules. When you fail the 100 question test, you loose your license and must take the boating course again. Boats being run without a licensed driver near the helm, shall be subject to $1,000 fine (either boat, owner, or operator).

Ted

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Roughly one-third(?) of states require adult boaters to have a boating safety certificate or something more involved such as a "boating license", however it is being phased in many places with older folks grandfathered in.

Of course the NASBLA safety course and similar covers the basic basics and won't resolve many of the OP's complaints.

https://www.boat-ed.com/boating_law/



In the USA, 36 states have taken the important step of mandating some form of educational requirements for operating a boat or PWC on state waters.

Washington has a mandatory boating course. WHAT A JOKE! Try to find a section "No Wake" zones in the training. The States should NOT implement this program. They are incompetent in this task.

Simple Solution:

I would support a NATIONWIDE program administered by the USCG. Like a driver's license you must have on your possession and maintain such a license when operating a vessel on the water. The license is good for 5 years, then you must take a refresher course.

If you can not produce such a license when asked to do so, by the USCG personnel you will have to pay a $1,000 fine for 1st offense, $2,000 for 2nd offence and $5,000 for the 3rd offense while attending the mandatory training. After the 3rd fine, you loose your privilege to operate a water vessel.

 

[mvweebles]

Washington has a mandatory boating course. WHAT A JOKE! Try to find a section "No Wake" zones in the training. The States should NOT implement this program. They are incompetent in this task.

Simple Solution:

I would support a NATIONWIDE program administered by the USCG. Like a driver's license you must have on your possession and maintain such a license when operating a vessel on the water. The license is good for 5 years, then you must take a refresher course.

If you can not produce such a license when asked to do so, by the USCG personnel you will have to pay a $1,000 fine for 1st offense, $2,000 for 2nd offence and $5,000 for the 3rd offense while attending the mandatory training. After the 3rd fine, you loose your privilege to operate a water vessel.

A simple solution to require licensing of hundreds of thousands of boaters? All because some people are annoyed by others who do not follow their interpretation of the rules?

Compared to cars, few deaths and injuries and no evidence a license would put even a small dent in it. Sorry. Count me thumbs-down on this solution in search of a problem.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

A simple solution to require licensing of hundreds of thousands of boaters? All because some people are annoyed by others who do not follow their interpretation of the rules?

Compared to cars, few deaths and injuries and no evidence a license would put even a small dent in it. Sorry. Count me thumbs-down on this solution in search of a problem.

Do you carry an automotive license?

 

[mvweebles]

Do you carry an automotive license?

I do indeed. And despite that all on the road presumably do so likewise, many - too many - still drive slow in the left lane. Given my druthers, would rather folks work on that before boneheads on jetskis or fishing boats.

Outside of getting people to follow rules for which there is already enforcement mechanisms, and assuming the post that cited 36 of 50 states require some sort of boater education (and I'd guess that insurance companies give a discount to boaters who complete programs), what problem are we solving by spooling-up the USCG to license boaters and issue fines and follow-up?

Can we compromise and have the USCG enforce slow-left-lane drivers first? Really annoying if you ask me.....

Peter

 

[psneeld]

One of the biggest complaints is about wakes...as far as I now the USCG has no jurisdiction on vessels under 300 tons and wakes...only in federal speed zones (and then it's speed, not wake enforced).

 

[jgwinks]

From USA Navrules


Rule 14 - Head-on Situation

(d) Notwithstanding Rule 14(a), a power-driven vessel operating on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate.

That's not COLREGS, it's US Inland Rules. They're in the same book, but they're not the same thing. As the book says, Right of Way only applies on the Western Rivers (Mississippi River system) and Great Lakes, and only with a following current. Not what we're talking about here.

 

[Seevee]

I could argue for a mandatory online course, in which you get a certificate of completion, just like Boat US has. However, not for a license. The license will do little for safety and just provide another government money grab for them... just like drivers licenses.


We already have too much government, don't need more.

 

[Steve Jackson]

One thing that make me wonder, is how the states that mandate some form of training look at someone who has been USCG Licensed for over 50 years, who made their living by going to sea, retaking parts of the license to maintain that license, but coudn't pass the physical on his last renewal, but got a Continiuty of my License. I can assure you that I have far more training than any state license requires, probably remember the RULE OF THE ROAD very well and operate a boat like I care. Do I still need to get a state operators certificate, to operate a boat is certain states. My state doesn't require anything to operate a boat on state waters.

 

[Seevee]

One thing that make me wonder, is how the states that mandate some form of training look at someone who has been USCG Licensed for over 50 years, who made their living by going to sea, retaking parts of the license to maintain that license, but coudn't pass the physical on his last renewal, but got a Continiuty of my License. I can assure you that I have far more training than any state license requires, probably remember the RULE OF THE ROAD very well and operate a boat like I care. Do I still need to get a state operators certificate, to operate a boat is certain states. My state doesn't require anything to operate a boat on state waters.

Totally agree. Requiring beginning training for a licensed captain is waste. However, could see some sort of "recurrent" training, but would be hard to monitor.

 

[psneeld]

That's not COLREGS, it's US Inland Rules. They're in the same book, but they're not the same thing. As the book says, Right of Way only applies on the Western Rivers (Mississippi River system) and Great Lakes, and only with a following current. Not what we're talking about here.

If you noticed...I labeled the lead in as USA Navrules..... yes I know....but the point is that "right of way" is recognized in navigation rules. Maybe not everywhere but the concept applies where needed.



It also applies to the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal.




https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/publications/coast-pilot/files/xml2html.php?xml=cp3/CPB3_C07_WEB.xml


Navigation regulations
(8) The following regulations are from 33 CFR 162 and 33 CFR 207:
(9) § 162.40 Inland waterway from Delaware River to Chesapeake Bay, DE and MD (Chesapeake and Delaware Canal).


(12) (c) Right-of-way. All vessels proceeding with the current shall have the right-of-way over those proceeding against the current. Large vessels or tows must not overtake and attempt to pass other large vessels or tows in the waterway. All small pleasure craft shall relinquish the right-of-way to deeper draft vessels, which have a limited maneuvering ability due to their draft and size.


I believe it exists in many places and while not a COLREG....the concept applies in some situations and not only limited to US Western Rivers.