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Old 09-11-2021, 05:16 AM   #21
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OSHA will not redesign the windlass with so many protection and safety devices that it will no longer be useful and still, someone will manage to injury themselves. And don't forget, at least 15 caution signs in 4 different languages.
Maybe required at least 12 hours training too.
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:06 AM   #22
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[QUOTE=Simi 60;1033695]Would have been worth doing a piss and drug test at the time

Would never wish injury on anyone and I'm sorry he had to go through that. That being said, he is responsible for his own fingers and where the hell he puts them.

The fact he is suing makes my apathy level drop a great deal. I hope he recovers well, but personally, I think he's a tool.

((Maybe I'm grouchy because I have mot finished my first cup of coffee)
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:39 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
In the US, the term often used in "contrary to public policy."

In business in a large company we had many contracts with smaller contractors. We attempted to write fair and equitable contracts as courts are adverse to letting you win simply because you wrote the contract or you had better lawyers. In the case of a boat rental, the typical "you signed it" may well fall of deaf ears in court. The charter company paid lawyers to spend considerable time developing the contract. Often the charterer only saw it briefly and signed it on the spot. A smart charter company would provide in advance and encourage them to have it reviewed by their attorney, but few do that.

Severance agreements are one of the most one sided agreements in the US. Employer agrees to pay former employee for x amount of time and employee agrees to forego all rights to sue or file claims or anything else. Either sign or you get no severance. Now normal practice is to not put agreement into effect for a period of time and require employee to return and sign either that they had a lawyer review it or chose not to do so in spite of being advised to do so. Still, in 30 years, I've never had a terminated employee refuse to sign.

I doubt seriously, that a boat rental company or charterer has had customers refuse to sign. The contract is written to protect the owner and most are very one sided. We chartered about about 8 to 10 boats in 2012-13. We refused the standard contract. They didn't like it but we had a good reputation for our chartering. Our charter broker made it clear we would not sign the standard form. The standard MYBA form is actually equitable between owner and charterer, but it's drawn by a broker association and has clauses such as broker fee is considered to be earned when signed so if contract cancelled even by force majeure and by either party, broker still gets full commission. Also, if charterer buys the boat within 2 years, the broker gets a 15% commission. Pretty obvious who wrote the agreement.

Typically though I'd think when you charter a crewed boat, the liability on the part of the owner is very high. However, when you charter without a crew, to operate yourself, your attesting to your own knowledge and to release the owner from liability is more a factor. You are saying you're knowledgeable and capable.

BandB,
That's all good and great that you draft agreements that are "equitable", and understand your reluctance to sign one sided agreements.



I'm the same way... to a point. But want it "my" way on both sides.


Sometimes folks have to be trained, like employees and tenants. My agreements for both were WAY one sided on my part and I went into great detail and training with everyone that signed them.


People do stupid things, and the goal was to prevent that. So, my contracts put MUCH more responsibility on their backs and made them think before doing stupid things. Especially my rental agreements. Virtually all responsibilities were on the tenants back....no exceptions.



It gave me the right to control them, which was needed. They only got one chance to be bad and I got rid of them, and if they were good they got rewarded. And if they did stupid things, they paid for it. In 25 years since I used this contract, over several hundred tenants, rarely had any problems, zero lawsuits and no injuries.


Sometimes strong contracts are necessary. And, I'll bet the rental one for the boat was.
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Old 09-11-2021, 12:41 PM   #24
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Make me think of an old timer that used to come in for afternoon coffee and tell stories with the other geezers. His first job was as a cabin boy on a ship that took lumber from Port Gamble to San Fancisco. A sailing ship. He later worked many years as a long shoreman. He told me that his union was the only coverage for on-the-job injuries. Loss of a finger was $100. Thumb was $500. How's that for severance pay.
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Old 09-11-2021, 01:09 PM   #25
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Sometimes strong contracts are necessary. And, I'll bet the rental one for the boat was.
There is strong and there is unreasonable, but I bet the rental agreement was like the ones you write and strong but still enforceable. Now the one thing I bet you do is cover it well with tenants. That's the other factor. Does the company make the people actually take time to read it or do they cover it in detail with them.

One thing I have seen in contracts recently is requiring each paragraph to be initialed to try to impress reading and agreeing to each statement.
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:45 PM   #26
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There is strong and there is unreasonable, but I bet the rental agreement was like the ones you write and strong but still enforceable. Now the one thing I bet you do is cover it well with tenants. That's the other factor. Does the company make the people actually take time to read it or do they cover it in detail with them.

One thing I have seen in contracts recently is requiring each paragraph to be initialed to try to impress reading and agreeing to each statement.

BandB,
You're absolutely right. I spend at LEASE two hours with them at the signing and everyone on the contract must attend. And this is after I've gone over it many times in dealing with them. Tenants are like employees. They must be trained and must understand the responsibilities and duties. And also, the benefits. Good ones are worth their weight in gold, and the bad ones can bankrupt landlords.
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:40 PM   #27
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We have a Contracts Review legislation,enabling Courts to rewrite grossly unfair contracts.
Returning to boats, a boat like the MT34 hired here is reasonably complex to operate. Think how long it takes to be fully familiar(if ever) with a new boat. Hirers, generally unlicensed, come in a wide range of skill levels and are let loose with a boat after maybe 15 minutes instruction, maybe with a reference manual, and a phone number or VHF contact. Anything can arise, it`s a hire fraught with risk, and if anything on the boat is not in good working order problems you or I might easily resolve many hirers may not. If the boat comes with a sleeping maintenance issue which blossoms into reality, many hirers are going to struggle, and it may be reasonable to sheet responsibility back to the owners. Each case on its own merits of course.
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