Marina pinball

[Codger2]

A good Training Captain can take a good boat driver and turn him/her into an excellent boat driver.

About 5 years ago I switched from a single to twins. It was a log time since I operated a boat with 2 engines & like riding a bicycle, you never forget. I didn't feel super confident although I never got in trouble maneuvering the boat so I decided to take a refresher course and hired a captain. One of the best things I ever did as the captain (in a very calm voice) showed me things and reminded me that neutral is your friend, go slow & watch the wind. The whole thing took about 2 hours, multiple dockings and a lot of "hanger talk" and was worth every dime!

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I don't train peeps on boat handling , I did for a short while as a paid gig on the side from My tug Capt job. I enjoyed training wives much more than the hubbys. They had no preconceived notions or macho stuff to "unlearn". They just did what I told them after an explanation of why it would work. Much better students and consequently, showed up hubby because of it.

 

[syjos]

I don't train peeps on boat handling , I did for a short while as a paid gig on the side from My tug Capt job. I enjoyed training wives much more than the hubbys. They had no preconceived notions or macho stuff to "unlearn". They just did what I told them after an explanation of why it would work. Much better students and consequently, showed up hubby because of it.

Same here. Training wives when the husband was not around was a joy. Wives were less stressed without the husband around and I didn't have to put up with the husband trying to out machmo me.

Most of the men I trained were "have to's" where insurance or charter companies required it and resisted the training.

 

[FlyWright]

I don't train peeps on boat handling , I did for a short while as a paid gig on the side from My tug Capt job. I enjoyed training wives much more than the hubbys. They had no preconceived notions or macho stuff to "unlearn". They just did what I told them after an explanation of why it would work. Much better students and consequently, showed up hubby because of it.

I had the same experience training young coeds to fly. Much easier to teach and no husbands.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

No disrespect to any hubbys intended. Just my experience. YMMV.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Get a training captain before frustrating yourself. I could dock a 30' bowrider as well as anyone I've ever seen, but I didn't dare try a 44' or 63' ocean going vessel without training.

You can practice away from a dock too, even offshore. Part of it is learning how your boat responds. So practice small moves with the wind hitting from all directions and current as well. An challenging exercise I think is just try to hold your exact position. Calm water, it's easy. 20 knot wind and 3 knot current and you have to learn something. See, the problem isn't the dock. It doesn't move. The problem is controlling the boat. It's maneuvering the boat in different conditions.

 

[Andy G]

A horses for courses story.

Like Codger 2 we moved from a single screw boat to a twin about 12 years ago. We weren't that confident with the closer quarter driving , so hired a captain for a full day. We learnt a lot over that time and he gave us a manual to study and refer to as needed.

One of the rules he drummed into us was when using the props to steer the boat in close quarters,don't touch the throttles, just use the gears.

Now, 99% of the time that was great advice and we followed it religiously. However, a couple of times we found ourselves in a situation of high winds with limited maneuverability and the boat would not come up into the wind.We ended going sideways past moored boats to the starboard and port of us, not an enjoyable experience.

After this we experimented in using some bursts of throttle to get the old girl to turn. This worked a treat.The boat has a long keel and weighs over 12 tons, she is hesitant to change direction, she likes going in a straight line. Once we overcame our apprehension of using both gears and throttle in tight seaways, the world was our oyster, and we almost never hit anything again.

So, the moral of my story is, listen to expert advice but importantly get to know your boat and how it behaves. Be inquisitive,try things for yourself just to see how she reacts.

 

[mvweebles]

OP - like so many have already said, my deepest sympathies go out to you. I know exactly how your day ended for both you and your wife.

There are four constraints at play: Your skills. The boat. Weather conditions. And slip configuration. A training captain and practice will help you equilibrate them to the extent possible . You mentioned early you've considered a different slip. If you planned to keep the boat, a bow thruster would be a good investment as it would lead to much more use of your boat. When I was in your shoes, docking anxiety ruined boat ownership - even a great day had to end with docking and it was a grim reaper that clouded a day on the water. In my case, local weather conditions and slip orientation were killers, but masked my inexperience too. I over compensated by going head first into boats. But that's another story.

Finding a decent trainer is no small feat. I know of several excellent skippers who are simply not good teachers. They do not understand how people learn nor can they empathize. Many simply do not have the temperament. One guy I knew was the go-to guy for arranging boats in boat shows. He and his tiny Asian woman crew would shoe-horn yachts into impossible situations, often in fairways so narrow that the only way to spin the boat to back-down was to stuff the bow between two boats on the opposite side. As skilled as he was at close quarters, he was only so-so as an instructor.

BTW - the temptation is to want instruction on a breezy day. I don't agree with that approach. You must learn how the boat moves and responds in the absence of outside influences - build muscle memory and see the small changes as they happen and respond accordingly. Otherwise, it's like learning to play violin while sitting in an orchestra.

In short, many skippers and experienced boaters can sort of teach technique, but they cannot create a curriculum that builds skills and confidence. Suggestion would be to find an active powerboat brokerage and ask who they use. Chances are they regularly have novice clients.

In closing, many helmsmen (most?) are not great at close quarter maneuvers. Power or sail. They figure out a routine for their conditions but often do not gain universal skills. You have a lot of company despite the many knowledgeable responses on a forum such as this.

Good luck

Peter.

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't see the necessity to dock a boat backwards unless that's the only way to use the berth (short or no fingers).

We see short finger piers more often than not. Probably 70-80% of the time, maybe more...

Can't get off our boat if we enter those bow-to...

-Chris

 

[slowgoesit]

We sold a GB36, single, no thrusters. We were lucky and never dinged it, although the first time backing it in to the dock was a debacle . . . but no one saw it . . . so it didn't really happen. Anyway, we sold the boat to a guy who's largest boat was around an 18' center console . . . I spent some time with him helping him to get the feel of the boat in his new marina. He was knowledgeable, and smart, but just not confident. At one point he was bringing it in to the dock, but sideways (crabbing) to the finger pier. I calmly told him to just move back out and start again, no shame in that. He just threw up his hands and said "I'm done, YOU do it!" Easier said than done since he didn't move away from the wheel . . . but we moved back out and he tried again. Finally got to the point of diminishing returns, he was clearly frustrated, and regretted purchasing the boat. I suggested that he hire a professional to instruct him.

Saw him again a few weeks later. He said the professional skipper he hired screwed up (his explanation was kind of confusing) and crumpled the entire swim step . . I thought the owners reply to the skipper was classic. He told me he looked at the remains of the swim step and turned to the skipper and said "I already know how to do THAT! What I needed from you was to learn how NOT to do that!" Anyway, skipper told him that "a boat like that, with a single screw was unsafe without a bow thruster!"
Morale of the store: There's "professionals" and there's PROFESSIONALS!

 

[swampyankee]

I don't know of any trainers in my area, but having experience withe the US Power Squadron, I might check with the local chapter to see what they offer.

Meanwhile, there are some interested buyers (or tire-kickers). Maybe a knee-jerk reaction, but I've bought and sold alot of stuff in my day, and I find of its not something I plan to keep longterm, it's better to sell before it requires any major expenses (engine rebuild, etc.)

 

[wkearney99]

Heh, when bringing our old boat into it's new slip, back in '06, I had a devil of a time. Someone from up on a balcony alongside the fairway hollered down "What are you trying to do?" To which I shouted back "NOT HIT ANYTHING!". And, of course, no one materialized on shore to aid the process. Gee, thanks.

Anyway, what I discovered was the hull on that boat had TERRIBLE handling at idle speed. Just in-gear (forward or reverse) and the least little thing would set it off course. It was an express cruiser boat and did not have a significant enough amount of keel/weight to keep it from getting unsettled.

Had a friend take me back/forth a few times docking and his observation was, to the effect of, "this boat needs more speed to keep it on track". Instead of inching along at just ~2-3 knots when just 'in gear', it helped ENORMOUSLY to give it just a bit more throttle and get it to ~4-5 knots. And to learn just how much of a deep pull into reverse it would need to slow/stop it. Once I got familiar with this docking got MUCH less stressful.

That and get an understanding for when the orientation of the boat will become impossible to manage further. As in, too far to the side of a fairway, against wind/current conditions, to allow for recovery. If you feel yourself getting too close to that point, know what kind of backing up will be necessary to better set you up for a do-over.

Sure, lots of folks will opine "only go as fast as you want to hit something". They're not wrong. But they leave out the understanding that not all boats perform that same way, and that some may not benefit from going "too slow". I know that boat absolutely didn't.

My point isn't go racing around the marina. Rather, know if your boat tracks more effectively with more or less power during maneuvering.

 

[rslifkin]

I always say for docking that you go "as slow as possible but as fast as necessary". In calm conditions you can crawl around, but in a high windage boat that's not overly heavy for its size and doesn't have a big keel, that doesn't work when it's windy.

You can end up having to use pretty good bursts of power and move at a decent speed to get the boat where you want it. I've had a few times where dockhands had dinner plates for eyes with me coming onto a side tie with the wind blowing me off, as it looked like I was ready to ram the dock at 4+ kts before making a last-second pivot.

Ideally, get comfortable with the boat in calm conditions where you can take as much time as you need and make little adjustments, then slowly scale that up to having to do the same thing faster and with more compensation for wind / current.

 

[wkearney99]

I've had a few times where dockhands had dinner plates for eyes with me coming onto a side tie with the wind blowing me off, as it looked like I was ready to ram the dock at 4+ kts before making a last-second pivot.

And lots of arm waving from people on shore! The good part of our last boat was those faster approaches didn't come with throwing appreciable additional wake. For the few that commented my typical reply was "I know it looks wrong, but this boat really handles badly going that much slower for approaches." That always seemed to elicit some understanding.

 

[Codger2]

You can practice away from a dock too, even offshore. Part of it is learning how your boat responds. So practice small moves with the wind hitting from all directions and current as well. An challenging exercise I think is just try to hold your exact position.

An exercise I was taught many years ago was to put the bow up close to a buoy (any buoy) and using just back and fill & rudder, walk the boat 360 degrees around the buoy, keeping the bow aimed at and close to the buoy. In that one exercise you will encounter all the various forces that act on your boat. Wind, current, tide, drift, prop walk, etc. It's not that easy to pull this off without the bow wondering or the distance between the bow & the buoy increasing. (BTW, no bow thruster allowed in this exercise. ) I'd love to see some of our members who have taught & are teaching boat handling, successfully complete that exercise!

 

[psneeld]

An exercise I was taught many years ago was to put the bow up close to a buoy (any buoy) and using just back and fill & rudder, walk the boat 360 degrees around the buoy, keeping the bow aimed at and close to the buoy. In that one exercise you will encounter all the various forces that act on your boat. Wind, current, tide, drift, prop walk, etc. It's not that easy to pull this off without the bow wondering or the distance between the bow & the buoy increasing. (BTW, no bow thruster allowed in this exercise. ) I'd love to see some of our members who have taught & are teaching boat handling, successfully complete that exercise!

Thats almost what I described in a prior post (31) but in a marina where the pucker factor is higher...also stopping and holding at a given point I feel is important.

The buoy technique is good, but many only get flustered when they are close to other boats.

 

[Codger2]

thats almost what I described in a prior post (31) but in a marina where the pucker factor is higher...

Sorry, psneeld, you did write about this and I just reviewed it! I guess, as you have pointed out, that my example mitigates the student from crashing in to other vessels until the maneuver is perfected.

 

[psneeld]

Its the difference between an instructor captain and any old captain.

The instructor has a toolbox of drills that teach as opposed to many captains that show a student a docking, and get them to imitate, not necessarily understand.

One captain I worked with hardly let the new owners touch the wheel. They were a mess the first couple times I had them out as they had little confidence doing anything.



I was far from a great boat handler, but had done some form of instruction pretty much my whole life.

As far as practicing around a buoy....you bet the first few times are necessary for most...after a student got the basics, doing it in a marins and not hitting anything increased their confidence greatly. Wish they had military grade or commercial top notch simulators for training boaters....for so.e the high cost would still be worth it to get them that confidence they can operate near things without the fiberglass repairer bills

 

[rgano]

I don't see the necessity to dock a boat backwards unless that's the only way to use the berth (short or no fingers).

Unless it is a floating pier marina hereabouts, you have to back in due to short fingers.

 

[SteveK]

I have owned both sail and power, single and double screw.
One thing that puzzles me is guests that are not able to drive a (near) straight line.
Pick a point dead ahead and steer for it while underway at cruising speed.

 

[FlyWright]

I have found some folks like to put their course reference on the pointy part of the bow instead of the rail portion that directly in front of them, starboard of the bow. Once I put a piece of blue tape on that part of the rail, even the 12 year old can hold course.

 

[rslifkin]

I have found some folks like to put their course reference on the pointy part of the bow instead of the rail portion that directly in front of them, starboard of the bow. Once I put a piece of blue tape on that part of the rail, even the 12 year old can hold course.

I've seen the same problem. My boat happens to have the helm lined up with the bend in the rail where it comes back from the pulpit, so I always tell people to use that as the reference. The other issue people tend to have is over-controlling due to the boat not reacting as immediately as they expect. The suggestion of "if it's doing what you want, take your damn hands off the wheel" has helped a lot of people leave a much straighter wake.

 

[rgano]

I have owned both sail and power, single and double screw.
One thing that puzzles me is guests that are not able to drive a (near) straight line.
Pick a point dead ahead and steer for it while underway at cruising speed.

It's no mystery to me. Landlubbers think a boat should remain on the track they steer to just like a car, but the boat knows a different rule.

 

[BandB]

Its the difference between an instructor captain and any old captain.

The instructor has a toolbox of drills that teach as opposed to many captains that show a student a docking, and get them to imitate, not necessarily understand.

One captain I worked with hardly let the new owners touch the wheel. They were a mess the first couple times I had them out as they had little confidence doing anything.



I was far from a great boat handler, but had done some form of instruction pretty much my whole life.

As far as practicing around a buoy....you bet the first few times are necessary for most...after a student got the basics, doing it in a marins and not hitting anything increased their confidence greatly. Wish they had military grade or commercial top notch simulators for training boaters....for so.e the high cost would still be worth it to get them that confidence they can operate near things without the fiberglass repairer bills

Wifey B: We told the captains instructing us to be tough, we wanted to learn. Even though they were employed by us, they sure took that to heart. You didn't get something right the first time, they calmly told you what you did wrong, and then you did it again. During that time though we were always the ones at the helm. I remember our first day in 6-8' seas. I was exhausted when we finally went to shore. However, I learned so much about the boat, about handling it in those conditions (practicing in all directions) and about myself and my capabilities. I remember asking "is this safe?" The answer was, "The boat can handle it, I can handle it, the test is can you handle it and I believe you can."

As to simulators, MPT has a great simulator built by Transas, now part of Wartsila. In the normal use of it, it focused mostly on navigation and use of instruments. However, turn the guy running it loose in a slack time and you're in trouble. He had boats cross from all directions, storms come from nowhere. Only time I ever have and ever will captain a 700' cargo ship. It had docking but used it very little for that as mostly advanced courses. They did use it for close quarters and a lot for assessments. Really fun and realistic. I'd like to have one of those.

 

[syjos]

OP - like so many have already said, my deepest sympathies go out to you. I know exactly how your day ended for both you and your wife.

There are four constraints at play: Your skills. The boat. Weather conditions. And slip configuration. A training captain and practice will help you equilibrate them to the extent possible . You mentioned early you've considered a different slip. If you planned to keep the boat, a bow thruster would be a good investment as it would lead to much more use of your boat. When I was in your shoes, docking anxiety ruined boat ownership - even a great day had to end with docking and it was a grim reaper that clouded a day on the water. In my case, local weather conditions and slip orientation were killers, but masked my inexperience too. I over compensated by going head first into boats. But that's another story.

Finding a decent trainer is no small feat. I know of several excellent skippers who are simply not good teachers. They do not understand how people learn nor can they empathize. Many simply do not have the temperament. One guy I knew was the go-to guy for arranging boats in boat shows. He and his tiny Asian woman crew would shoe-horn yachts into impossible situations, often in fairways so narrow that the only way to spin the boat to back-down was to stuff the bow between two boats on the opposite side. As skilled as he was at close quarters, he was only so-so as an instructor.

BTW - the temptation is to want instruction on a breezy day. I don't agree with that approach. You must learn how the boat moves and responds in the absence of outside influences - build muscle memory and see the small changes as they happen and respond accordingly. Otherwise, it's like learning to play violin while sitting in an orchestra.

In short, many skippers and experienced boaters can sort of teach technique, but they cannot create a curriculum that builds skills and confidence. Suggestion would be to find an active powerboat brokerage and ask who they use. Chances are they regularly have novice clients.

In closing, many helmsmen (most?) are not great at close quarter maneuvers. Power or sail. They figure out a routine for their conditions but often do not gain universal skills. You have a lot of company despite the many knowledgeable responses on a forum such as this.

Good luck

Peter.

Excellent tips!

I worked with many licensed Captains at a yacht time share company. Some with years of experience on fish boats, tugs, charter boats and ferries. They were excellent boat drivers but some just did not have the patience, ability to teach or personality to be a good instructor. We would hire 5 captains and one would survive after training and the first student.

I canceled training if the wind was too strong on day 1 of training. I usually scheduled first day for early in the morning to avoid wind. The goal of the first day was to teach principles and basic skills to build confidence and muscle memory.

In the 20 plus years that I was a boat handling instructor, I probably touched the wheel less than 5 times. I described how we will be leaving the slip, explaining gear and throttle use until the client understood the principle. Then I have them do it with me giving a few correction moves. We move the boat to an open area and discuss the way the manuerveur went with ways to improve and then the client is taught how to go back into the slip. We repeat going in and out of the slip doing "touch and go's" for about 45 minutes to an hour and then move to something else.

The goal is maximum wheel time for the client and to build skills and confidence. The captain taking the wheel and showing how it's done doesn't teach the client anything. The captain is mostly showing off. Some clients want to see how it's done first before they make the move but I reassure the client that they can do it.

I found that repeating the same manuerveur for too long was fatiguing to the client so I mixed things up.

 

[SteveK]

I have found some folks like to put their course reference on the pointy part of the bow instead of the rail portion that directly in front of them, starboard of the bow. Once I put a piece of blue tape on that part of the rail, even the 12 year old can hold course.

I wonder if that also affects some skippers when docking.
Focusing on the bow instead the position of the whole boat.

 

[mvweebles]

Focusing on the bow instead the position of the whole boat.

I agree. I heard someone make an analogy that a boat turns like a forklift - when moving forward, the turn is from the stern swinging, not the bow turning. The best way to demonstrate this from a novice perspective is landing at a side-tie such as would be found at a fuel dock or pump-out. Feeling prop-walk slow the boat while dragging the stern towards the dock is an ah-ha moment for novice drivers, especially after a couple tries and watching their timing come together so the boat comes to a gentle rest right alongside the dock. Very empowering feeling. I think twin-screw drivers are often at a disadvantage as they do not often learn about prop-walk, which is important for twins too!

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I think twin-screw drivers are often at a disadvantage as they do not often learn about prop-walk, which is important for twins too!

I think it depends on the boat somewhat. On my boat with twins, maneuvering with differential thrust is as much or more about prop walk as it is about offset thrust. In many cases, it's just 1 engine at a time to walk the boat into the desired position.

 

[syjos]

I agree. I heard someone make an analogy that a boat turns like a forklift - when moving forward, the turn is from the stern swinging, not the bow turning. The best way to demonstrate this from a novice perspective is landing at a side-tie such as would be found at a fuel dock or pump-out. Feeling prop-walk slow the boat while dragging the stern towards the dock is an ah-ha moment for novice drivers, especially after a couple tries and watching their timing come together so the boat comes to a gentle rest right alongside the dock. Very empowering feeling. I think twin-screw drivers are often at a disadvantage as they do not often learn about prop-walk, which is important for twins too!

Peter

A good way to illustrate that is with a grocery cart. The wheels in back steer so similar to a boat.

I agree that twin engine boat owners miss out on some principles of prop walk.

Having only owned singles, I tend to drive a twin like two singles tied alongside each other.

 

[Bob Cofer]

The only thing I have to add to all of the advice given so far is to figure out where the pivot point is on your boat. On Ebbtide it was right at the helm station, on Seafarer it is about eight feet behind the helm. You need to keep that in mind while maneuvering.

A 60’ boat with a single screw gives me plenty of “opportunities for excellence”.

Never be afraid to go around and try again if it’s not working.