High bilge alarm! & Whale fresh water connectors

[ksanders]

Thanks, Kevin. You qualify as an ST power user! Can you tell me what sensors you’re using for battery voltage, shore power and inverter voltage?

That's easy

I'm using Ecolink Zwzve door and window sensors. These are actually contact sensors with a set of screw terminals inside.

For the AC power sources I used a 120V relay that drops out when shore power goes away. This is connected to my panel. Same thing with inverter power.

For the DC voltage I use the alarm contact on my State Of Charge meter. This is programmed to activate at 12.25 volts so if the charger quits charging for any reason I get the low voltage alarm

 

[ksanders]

So SmartThings runs on a dedicated $300 hub as opposed to an iPad or AppleTV that you may or may not already have. This is a classic example of getting what you pay for. That hub translates to reliability. Interesting.

As far as "local" operation, for example if your internet connection is down...

The latest hub has that capability, and Samsung has been in the process of moving the "automations" function from their servers to the hub for some time. I do not know the current state of that progress. I know that some autonomous operation is happening, but I am not sure how much. I just have not tried disconnecting the network for a while to see how much of the "if this happens then do that" functionality works stand alone.

I know the app needs internet access as it is driven by the servers at smartthings though.

What I really like about smartthings is that it is not just one company. It is dozens of companies, each coming up with their own sensors and then "works with smartthings" qualifying them for use. That really puts innovation and competition to work.

 

[angus99]

This almost deserves a separate thread. I’ll just add that there appears to be a new technology on the horizon that promises to incorporate devices using WiFi, Bluetooth, Zigbee and Z-Wave into a single on-board system that doesn’t rely on the cloud. The major players in home automation are already on board, so Apple (HomeKit) and Samsung (SmartThings) are active in the development.

https://www.theverge.com/22787729/m...te=1&user_id=3de02aceffa15bbef88a385629737baa

 

[angus99]

That's easy

I'm using Ecolink Zwzve door and window sensors. These are actually contact sensors with a set of screw terminals inside.

For the AC power sources I used a 120V relay that drops out when shore power goes away. This is connected to my panel. Same thing with inverter power.

For the DC voltage I use the alarm contact on my State Of Charge meter. This is programmed to activate at 12.25 volts so if the charger quits charging for any reason I get the low voltage alarm

Thanks again, Kevin.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

This almost deserves a separate thread. I’ll just add that there appears to be a new technology on the horizon that promises to incorporate devices using WiFi, Bluetooth, Zigbee and Z-Wave into a single on-board system that doesn’t rely on the cloud. The major players in home automation are already on board, so Apple (HomeKit) and Samsung (SmartThings) are active in the development.

https://www.theverge.com/22787729/m...te=1&user_id=3de02aceffa15bbef88a385629737baa

Matter looks promising. End of 2022 sounds optimistic. Hopefully I will remain patient.

 

[angus99]

Matter looks promising. End of 2022 sounds optimistic. Hopefully I will remain patient.

LOL! You may be right!

Here’s hoping it’ll be more like this:

 

[RickyD]

Your boat, but that is simply not true.

Whale components are not unlike any other plumbing part. You need at least one 90, and a tee, a end cap, and a threaded fitting as spares. Total cost maybe $25-30 USD.

Re-plumbing your boat will take a month of sundays and hundreds of dollars in parts. My guess is over a thousand dollars in parts before the job is done.

I do not know about you but I have a infinite l;ist of things I would like to do on my boat, and a finite amount of time in which to do them. Replacing a perfectly good plumbing system is not even on the list.

I bought a couple hundred feet of Pex recently for a boat repipe not yet done. I don't think I spent $50. Then the Shark bronze fittings $450.

 

[RickyD]

I bought a couple hundred feet of Pex recently for a boat repipe not yet done. I don't think I spent $50. Then the Shark bronze fittings $450.

So, last week I'm asleep in the master. I start thinking that the wind must be blowing and wavelets are lapping on the starboard side. Ok, I'm awake now, maybe I'll go pee. Looking out over the water it is flat as glass. Wait a second, where is the sound coming from. I quickly run to the panel and turn off the water pump as we pump only from the tanks. Water keeps making noise. I go to the sundeck and it is soaked. Sundeck sink supply line popped off. So glad I was there and glad I was not hooked to dock water.

When I leave the boat I turn off the water pressure pump and vaccuflush toilets. Frequently when I get to the boat and I go to turn them on, I see I left them on last time. Yiiikes!!!

I used to run dock water but I had problems with contamination when the water supply line is lying on the dock in hot weather. Next my ice cubes start looking cloudy. Then I started filtering the incoming water. Then I decided that constantly keeping our water tanks fresh was a good idea. My old boat had a bilge pump counter so when I come aboard I would check to see if any had turned on. I wish this boat had them. That is a future upgrade including high water alarm, and finally installing all that Pex I bought.

 

[JRO]

A few weeks ago, there was a thread discussing whether or not to use dock water under pressure for fresh water that didn't use your on-board tanks, nor your on-board fresh water pump.

My concern, and that of several other posters was that if you used your on-board water, and you had a failure of an on-board water line, or fitting, the worst that would happen was that you would dump all your fresh water into the bilge.
Move on to using fresh water supplied to the boat through a fitting, and using dock pressure to supply your water needs. Fitting fails, and your boat starts filling up with a supply of water that is limited only by how much water your marina municipal water company is able to supply . . . which is in every case MORE than is necessary to sink your boat, and in many cases, especially with our current dock with 80 psi of water pressure, and a 4” line supplying water, is more than our automatic bilge pumps could possibly keep ahead of! The water would come in faster than we could remove it.

So, 4 days ago, my wife wakes me up at 0558 and asks, “What is that sound?” I groggily come to my senses, and tell here, “That is the high water bilge alarm”! I’m now wide awake, and running up to the pilot house, where the light that is illuminated for the engine room compartment. I silence the alarm, switch on the bilge pump, and head to the engine room, where I find water all over the place, and 300 gallons of fresh water in the bilge. Not a big deal, and the bilge pump deals with it in about 15 minutes.

So, now to failure that led to the water escaping . . . The cold water supply line to the forward 12 gallon water heater has popped out of the fitting on the water heater.
The brand of the fitting was Whale. And a 15mm water line. No tension on the line. It was securely fasted to a bulkhead, properly seated from all appearances, it just popped out, allowing our on-board pump to pump 300 gallons of fresh water, which was everything that was in the tank, all over the fwd part of the ER, and into the bilge. . . . Sooooo, I looked over the fitting, it appeared that the guts of the fitting, o-ring, etc, was gone, probably somewhere in the bilge. I measured how much the line could go into the fitting, reseated it, it went in the correct distance, and was in just as far as it was prior to popping out . . . . Pressure is provided by an on-board fresh water pump, which cannot put out anything like the amount of pressure that should cause the Whale fitting to fail.

I couldn’t locate any spare fittings on the boat, so priced them on line. Anywhere from $22.99 to 32.99 . . . for ONE fitting! And apparently not available anywhere locally, so must buy on line. . . . . And I can’t find a source locally for the pipe . . . and no one is shipping due to cost . . . Granted, I didn’t look exhaustively, only spend 30 minutes or so . . . so I went down to the spares bins, found a brass fitting, 1/2” npt male on one end, 1/2” barb on the other. I screwed the npt end into the valve on the water heater, then slightly heated the end of the water line with a heat gun, slipped it over the barbed end of the fitting, installed a marine hose clamp, Viola, we’ve got fresh water again. . . .

First takeaway: Since we were on the boat, and the maximum possible spillage was 350 gallons from the forward water tank, no lasting harm occurred, or could have occurred, even if we hadn’t been on the boat. However if we had been hooked up to dock water, and not on the boat, we could have sunk our boat . . . . Food for thought. (Yes, I know that everyone says they turn off the water EVERY TIME they leave the boat, and that NO ONE would accidentally turn the water back on . . . but I wouldn’t be willing to bet my boat on that.)

Second takeaway: I now have added to the list of boat upgrades/repairs, to replace every bit of whale pipe and connectors on the boat with Pex, using SS crimp fittings instead of Whale fittings, which I will never trust again.

Third takeaway: I need a louder high water bilge alarm.
p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120% }So a few weeks ago, there was a thread relating to whether or not to use dock water under pressure for fresh water that didn't use your onboard tanks, nor your onboard fresh water pump. My concern, and that of several other posters was that if you used your onboard water, and you had a failure

Brevity is not your forte. What happened after your wife woke you up…?

 

[slowgoesit]

Brevity is not your forte. What happened after your wife woke you up…?

As stated, I replaced the failed Whale fitting with a bronze barbed fitting and SS hose clamps.

 

[OldDan1943]

Matter looks promising. End of 2022 sounds optimistic. Hopefully I will remain patient.

Interestingly, the man who was instrumental in developing the modem, gave away the code and protocol to encourage further development of the modem. He became very wealthy person selling his modem. My point is, share the code and protocol to make development of the hardware easier and faster.

 

[JRO]

As stated, I replaced the failed Whale fitting with a bronze barbed fitting and SS hose clamps.

Find the best price for the correct fitting and bite the bullet. They are hard to find but they normally don’t fail. I’d guess the failed fitting was never installed correctly. Now…. You’re test pilot for something slapped together with available leftover parts designed to do something else.

 

[captnhunt]

dock water

I have lived for many years on both sail and power boats in marinas hooked to dock side water. I have an automatic shut off made for sprinkler systems that lets you set the number of gallons of water you want then shuts off. I set it at 200 every morning when I leave the boat figuring I will not use more than that much in a day and 200 gallons in the bilge is not a big deal. I have had hoses break three times and the automatic shut off saved me. It is also great when filling tanks as you can set it for about the amount you are going to put in the tank and have it shut off before it gets there.

 

[toml]

On my 2008 Mainship I have had a few push-in fitting failures, some were dribbles some were more dramatic. In each case a contributing factor was side loading (bends) in the PEX.

It helps to route the PEX in-line with the fittings and minimize any sideward pressure on the fitting.

The original fittings were SeaTech now available as AquaLock by Watts

 

[Knot Fast]

Good thread. We did The Loop this year and had two plumbing leaks along the way. Both occurred on tank water, not shore hose. My Jabsco water pump is 60 psi; my fresh tank is 300g.

First was a pex/whale fitting leak located at a too-tight-tubing-turn. It developed a consistent drip after 20 years in service. As toml said: “side loading (bends)” are contraindicated. I replaced the tight bend with 90-degree fitting and replaced the fitting that leaked. I carry 10’ of spare 15mm pex and ~2 of each fitting type. In 3 years of live-aboard ownership the pex/Whale system has been good.

The second adventure was more interesting. I turn off the water pump while filling the fresh water tank to avoid its use during the ~45 minute fill time, which can result in pump turbulence (noise, air getting in the pump?). After filling the fresh tank I used the Vacuflush head. When I flushed, no water, so I turned on the fresh water pump again. It was hot outside; AC was running and muffling sounds. Two engineers aboard. 90 minutes later I used the head again and found water spilling out of the Vacuflush bowl. The Vacuflush fresh water valve had stuck partially open when I used it with the fresh water pump off. When I turned the pump back on, water flowed through the partially open valve and out the bowl. This fresh water side is totally separate from the waste side of the system. The result was I pumped 130g of new fresh water into my forward bilge; it had another 170g to go since I just filled the 300g tank. No damage, just a hassle. Connected to shore water without an automatic shutoff valve, this could have sunk the boat. I have no through-hulls and no bilge pumps in the forward bilge. She would have sunk bow first. I replaced the Vacuflush valve and am adding a forward bilge water sensor and alarm. My forward bilge is now very clean.

We are back in home port St Pete now for the winter and connected to the marina’s city water supply. A wise old boater suggested, and for a couple years we have used, a Flows water batch meter, ~$200, https://www.flows.com/automatic-batch-meter-wmv-series/ when connect to shore water. I set it weekly after pumpout, to 300g (same as fresh tank volume). That is usually enough for a week, or it will shut off while I am lathered in the shower.