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Old 07-12-2018, 03:21 PM   #41
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Here is a rescue technique I learned and practiced around the pool. It may or may not work in a dinghy, but when you are out of easier options or not near a boat or dock, give it a shot.
With the person in the water holding onto the side of the dinghy, cross their hands on top of each other. Left over right or right over left.Put your hands on theirs to stabilize. You then want to grab each wrist so that you spin the person in the water face out/away from the dinghy.This way the flattest side of their body is against the side of the boat.
Then "bob" them using the water as displacement to get them in the vessel.
The dinghy presents stability issues and the pool is terra firma.
But when you need an option....the video of the lady doing the under over is leveraging in a similar fashion. Not everyone would want to try that...
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:29 PM   #42
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We were taught to lift one leg up on the dock and use your leg muscles to roll up. From experience, legs much stronger than arms. If you can bae them float a leg out to the side and help them thru the plan...it works
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:52 PM   #43
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We were taught to lift one leg up on the dock and use your leg muscles to roll up. From experience, legs much stronger than arms. If you can bae them float a leg out to the side and help them thru the plan...it works
Wifey B: Ok, one strange bit of advice in emergency and life threatening situations. Don't be scared to grab anywhere. Grab a leg and lift it. Grab their shorts or bathing suit even at the risk of a severe wedgie. Don't fear where your hand might touch on male or female if they're in distress and you're trying to help. Rope them if that's the best way. A little rope burn sure beats drowning. I'm not saying to unnecessarily manhandle but when an emergency, do what it takes. If you have someone in your grasp but lack the leverage to get them up, the best leverage may be between their legs. We were told in class and I don't know if true or not, of a girl who almost died even though an AED was there, but the older man hesitated to remove her clothes.

Oh, and don't let anything happen to yourself. If it's freezing water, the last thing you need is to fall in with them. Even if warm, understand in a panic, you might be in with them trying to help and they might take you down with them, so life jacket before dare going in.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:01 PM   #44
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Cute reply, but with one leg on the dock and you arms folded in front of you, even you with all your knowledge B&B, would be surprised how your leg strength can assist you in rolling to SAFETY.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:40 PM   #45
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Cute reply, but with one leg on the dock and you arms folded in front of you, even you with all your knowledge B&B, would be surprised how your leg strength can assist you in rolling to SAFETY.
Wifey B: I know my leg strength if I wasn't in distress. However, many who need assistance don't have that leg strength. We've done some things like that just for fun, but we were athletic, well conditioned, healthy middle aged adults, not in any level of distress. If we were not injured and not in frigid water, we could get ourselves out in most any situation. We also have long legs, mine long for a woman, and his long for anyone. A lot different if it's a 4'11" woman weighing 194 lbs. Also, much depends on the level of panic of the person you're trying to assist. Sometimes, the most difficult task you have is just calming them down.

My reply wasn't to be cute. It was to use whatever methods required to get the person to safety. 95% of the time, that should be easy. I tried once to see if I could pull my hubby to a dock by myself if he was not helping in any way. Only way I could do it was a harness and boat crane. Two of us could, even two modest sized girls. I've talked to lifeguards and heard their stories of how difficult it was to save someone from drowning and they are well trained.

We have someone we're very close to who is 60 now but when she was young she saw another kid drown no more than 30 feet from her and she saw the kid in the canoe with the drowning kid unable to do anything. A counselor dived in but by the time he swam the 30 yards or so, he couldn't find the victim in the dirty lake water. Our friend never again got in any boat or in any pool or lake.

I think this thread really points out a significant issue. It made us think of our home. How many here have seawall or a dock and seawall at their home? Do you have ladders or any way for someone to get out if they fell in? How far would they have to swim?
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:42 AM   #46
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Surprisingly it doesn't seem there's a lot of regulation regarding ladders. There is awareness of the problem and some places do have recommendations.



I'd think it would be useful to raise the liability concern to the board. A single lawsuit would likely well exceed the cost of any kind of ladders. Find which regs best suit your marina's layout and use that to bolster the argument on placement. Make it a 'regulated distance' argument, not one about convenience. As in, the regs say X feet/meters apart, so you're getting one HERE regardless of you like it or not. Or conversely the regs say X distance apart, so any more than that would be a waste of the board's money both now AND over time for maintenance.



Then think about it from a person that's in the water's perspective. Where, in a panic, are they going to be able to SEE there's a ladder?



A quick search turned up these:



Research on Marina Drownings Reveals Need for Industry Standards on Ladders and Life Rings | Marina Dock Age



https://www.robsonforensic.com/artic...expert-witness

Excellent advice. Thank you. I also appreciate those links. It gives me some good information and rational to offer the board.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:45 AM   #47
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Excellent advice. Thank you. I also appreciate those links. It gives me some good information and rational to offer the board.
Sometimes it's best to rile up fear of economic catastrophe. But then temper it with "reality". That was my thought for countering the "but I want one TOO!" argument. Fall back on "rules require x", talk that up as a "significant" expense. Say that just reaching that level is going to be "expensive enough". That and flog the long-term maintenance angle... but only bring that out if there's a chance of the "me too" add-ons. You don't want to kill the whole effort by making it look expensive to maintain. You only want to scare off the "me too" folks.

Likewise, placement can use a "rules require x" argument. You might not want it "here" but the "rules require", etc. It can be especially useful to know who would be a whiner about this and set up an alternative that makes them look utterly ridiculous for insisting on it. As in, the offset location would result in being put in an entirely useless location, one people in the water would never readily find/use.

Be ready to have multiple ladder styles as examples. You probably don't want to get into installing multiple different styles, but using one or two different kinds might help assuage concerns about looks/utility/location. Ones with large, tall hoops that anchor them to the decking could present walkway or line-blocking hazards, so there are kinds that just have poles.

With whatever they go with make certain the rules for maintaining the marina are amended to include regular inspection of the ladders. As in, someone's job description is going to have to include checking that the ladders are in place, working and safe to use (not left hanging down, totally encrusted in skin ripping barnacles)
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:02 AM   #48
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A counselor dived in but by the time he swam the 30 yards or so, he couldn't find the victim in the dirty lake water. Our friend never again got in any boat or in any pool or lake.
This was why I had our boy take swim lessons starting just shy of 9 months old. It wasn't so much 'swimming' as it was 'anti-drowning'. If there was any chance of falling overboard the murky waters would make it impossible to find him. I wanted at least one shot at retrieving him should he have fallen into the Bay waters.

I witnessed just what happens when a small child falls into water. A friend's 18 month old accidentally fell into a neighbor's swimming pool while at a party. This while everyone was walking/sitting/standing around the pool. The little one fell into the water and SANK LIKE A STONE, with a panicked look on her face. Then sat there at the bottom, frozen in fear. Her Dad was quickly into the pool after her and they both came out unscathed. The whole thing couldn't have taken more than 30 seconds. But the look of frozen panic on the child's face... it was terrifying to see how unprepared she was for the situation. She was in lessons the very next week.

Infant Swim Rescue was the program we chose for our boy. They teach, basically, get back to the surface and float there without panicking. Upside is the instructor does all the work, I didn't have to get in the water with him. Made me the hero, saving him from the lady in the cold water with my 'nice and warm' towel.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:28 AM   #49
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This was why I had our boy take swim lessons starting just shy of 9 months old. It wasn't so much 'swimming' as it was 'anti-drowning'. If there was any chance of falling overboard the murky waters would make it impossible to find him. I wanted at least one shot at retrieving him should he have fallen into the Bay waters.

I witnessed just what happens when a small child falls into water. A friend's 18 month old accidentally fell into a neighbor's swimming pool while at a party. This while everyone was walking/sitting/standing around the pool. The little one fell into the water and SANK LIKE A STONE, with a panicked look on her face. Then sat there at the bottom, frozen in fear. Her Dad was quickly into the pool after her and they both came out unscathed. The whole thing couldn't have taken more than 30 seconds. But the look of frozen panic on the child's face... it was terrifying to see how unprepared she was for the situation. She was in lessons the very next week.

Infant Swim Rescue was the program we chose for our boy. They teach, basically, get back to the surface and float there without panicking. Upside is the instructor does all the work, I didn't have to get in the water with him. Made me the hero, saving him from the lady in the cold water with my 'nice and warm' towel.
Wifey B: In the case of our friend, I think in today's world the kids would be far more likely to be wearing preservers. I wasn't on the water when young, but hubby was and he never wore a life preserver of any sort except skiing and then only a belt. Camps and other groups just weren't as aware or scared, I guess. We don't have kids but we do have 2 three year old's around some and they know that boat and water mean their PFD's. They have very cute ones. They're both about 4 now and Aurora has had her first swim lessons with Juliet about to have hers.

Hubby had drown proofing in college.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:13 PM   #50
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I like the video too and I have experimented myself with simple dinghy ladders that dont take up too much space for the little bit of time that you use it.

I have made loops for a foot with the painter looped through an aft handle but never find the sweet spot of depth in the water as I un-do it after each use. I am going to try the pvc pipe idea. Nice and simple and out of the way.

One problem I know about non-rigid (ie rope, loop, etc) is that your feet and legs end up going under the boat after you start to climb the ladder which makes maneuverability difficult.

This is way off topic, but on the topic of dinghies, I took a rescue course from Navy SEALs and the way to right an upside dinghy is to take a long painter and attach it to a handle on one side, throw the painter over the dinghy and from the side of the dinghy the bitter end is on, climb on to the top of the upside down dinghy, while kneeling, with your weight on the side opposite the side the rope is attached to and pull the rope-- you'll start to raise the one side of the dinghy and eventually it will flip right. Your goal is to climb into it while it is going right without falling out. I did it all while wearing a red gumby suit. Okay. Just wanted to share.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:38 PM   #51
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Our marina is quite large, 540 slips, and there are ladders installed on each dock with some of the longer docks having more than one. The closest one to our boat is 3 slips over. Whenever we walk guests to the boat, whether they've been out with us before or not, I always stop at that ladder and tell them "If you were to fall in the water with no one around, make your way over to this ladder to get out." In the spring when the water is still cold, I go one step further and lower the ladder on the swim platform while we're docked. 3 slips is a long way to swim in 40 degree water!
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:30 PM   #52
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Getting in a dingy from the water

I too am a senior citizen and when I scuba dive it is easier to get in the water than back into the dingy. I take my dive gear off then I take a line and tie both ends to the line that runs down the opposite pontoon. I throw this over the other pontoon, this makes a loop in which I can put my foot. This give me enough leverage to get in the dingy. The force is downward on the pontoon opposite the secured line.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:53 PM   #53
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Our marina is quite large, 540 slips, and there are ladders installed on each dock with some of the longer docks having more than one. The closest one to our boat is 3 slips over. Whenever we walk guests to the boat, whether they've been out with us before or not, I always stop at that ladder and tell them "If you were to fall in the water with no one around, make your way over to this ladder to get out." In the spring when the water is still cold, I go one step further and lower the ladder on the swim platform while we're docked. 3 slips is a long way to swim in 40 degree water!
I like that you give your guests a brief on the marina as well as your boat before getting underway. Great plan.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #54
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Your marina might want to look at these - they don't encourage possibly dangerous swimming around the marina (moving boats and electricity) - but are there in emergencies.

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Old 07-16-2018, 04:18 PM   #55
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"This is way off topic, but on the topic of dinghies, I took a rescue course from Navy SEALs and the way to right an upside dinghy is to take a long painter and attach it to a handle on one side, throw the painter over the dinghy and from the side of the dinghy the bitter end is on, climb on to the top of the upside down dinghy, while kneeling, with your weight on the side opposite the side the rope is attached to and pull the rope-- you'll start to raise the one side of the dinghy and eventually it will flip right. Your goal is to climb into it while it is going right without falling out. I did it all while wearing a red gumby suit. Okay. Just wanted to share.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like the way we used to bring up Hobie Cat sail boats after turning them upside down
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:43 PM   #56
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We have this in our dinghy.

https://www.defender.com/product3.js...90206&id=92385

I admit to not having tried to get out of the water using it, though.
We had one of those web ladders and found it nearly useless: when you put a foot in the bottom rung it swings under the boat.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:34 AM   #57
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The marina I’m based in is state owned/operated. This is a fixed, not floating pier, setup. Some years ago, the original ladders were removed. For years, tenants questioned the absence of ladders in the marina. The answer, always the same, was that “liability concerns” prevented their installation. The marina’s lawyers were concerned that ladders would encourage swimming (prohibited) in the marina and create an “attractive nuisance”. The mental masturbation that passes for legal thought in this country is astounding.

Two years ago, on a cold (for here, about 40 F), windy winter morning, a long term live aboard and very experienced boater slipped/tripped and wound up in the drink. This guy is in shape, built like a fireplug, strong swimmer, etc., etc. Using the existing dock/pier features, he couldn’t get out despite his best efforts. Luckily, and not too long after, a couple of tenants showed up, heard the guy hollering, found him clinging to a pile, and through significant effort got him aboard a boat and safe.

This resulted in a significant tenant/management fight that lasted nearly a year that finally resulted in the installation of ladders (the exact model shown at the left in post #47) at the end of each finger pier. It took the demonstration of an actual potential liability causing event (not to mention a human being possibly drowning) to turn them around. Sheesh!
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:01 AM   #58
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Falling In

Usually I am a theorist but for this thread I can tell of my practical experience falling in! I was watching a boat making several attempts at getting into a pontoon berth. It was difficult because of the tide and wind (F5 across the bow). After a while I thought I'd go and help him by taking a line.

I noticed he was a bit heavy on the throttles, but on the second or third attempt he was getting there and then a gust started to push his boat towards the dock and I tried to push him off. He put the throttles wide open and I was left teetering on the dock. Eventually, I fell in. Fortunately, the water was warm and underwater I remember keeping hold of my glasses.

Whe I surfaced he was gone and there were lots of people. The was no rescue ladder so I had to swim to a nearby boat and use their boarding ladder to get back on the pontoon.

I swim a lot from my boat (even I though I am elderly) and find rope and fabric ladders just don't work (see the Practical Boat Owner article that confirmed it). You need a rigid ladder that goes a way underwater so you can get your feet on it (the boat I boarded had this), but also you need a high up handle, again preferably rigid so it doesn't move away from you). The boat I used didn't have this but people were able to help me on board. There was no rescue ladder nearby and looking at the ones we have in the UK they lack the second component of a decent hand hold.

One other thing to bear in mind is that when you fall in your weight will increase by at least 10kg (I measured this for an article I wrote - see PBO - on cold water immersion). If the person is a non swimmer, overweight or panicking don't try lifting them up with a rope around the chest - you'll probably hurt them and your self. Stabilise the situation and get help.

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Old 07-23-2018, 05:21 PM   #59
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Over the weekend, an elderly overweight non swimmer fell into the water at our marina. We managed to get him alongside an inflatable dinghy and hold him by his arms but there was no way we could pull him into the dinghy, not even a little bit. Eventually someone found a step ladder, and tied it to the side of the dock. We moved him over to that and he was able to climb out with assistance. I am wondering if we had taken the bung out of the dinghy and let it fill with water would it have made it easier to get him aboard? Anybody worked out a strategy to use with just two people in the dinghy and no other aids? Thanks, Richard
The way I do it is by using a 3/8" rope tied to the opposite side or's hook. The other end of the rope has a bowline knot with a loop big enough to fit my foot at about 1.5 feet below the water. I use the loop as a step to rise myself above the dinghy's air chamber.
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