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Old 08-01-2020, 06:43 PM   #41
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Well, it just says most boaters are less capable than a ten year old.
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:29 PM   #42
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Yup, you only have to have money...
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Not so in Canada. Anyone who operates a boat with any kind of motor is required to have a Pleasure Craft Operator Card (that you receive after passing a boating safety course), or other suitable proof of competency.
IMHO Comodave's comment is true under the maple leaf flag and I respectfully submit that John R M is placing too much faith in the PCOC.

Although the PCOC uses the phrase "proof of competency", the focus is on boating safety. Seamanship and application of the COLREGS, not so much. Proceeding at 15 kts in fog is extremely poor seamanship and three short blasts as a fog signal is just plain COLREGS-wrong.

"You can get the card by taking a boating safety course in-person or online, and passing the test at the end of the course." (my emphasis)

Furthermore, enforcement ranges between lax and non-existent. Perhaps if boat brokers were required to record details of the proposed operator's PCOC or if marine insurance providers required those details...?

The PCOC is definitely not the marine equivalent of a driver's licence, despite how it is described here... https://aceboater.com/en/safe-boating-course-review

For those who are interested...
https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...ard-pcoc-faq#p
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:21 AM   #43
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There is a case to be made that online classes have been detrimental to boating safety. We used to teach a 12 lesson 2 hour per night in person Boating Safety class. The students were taught way more than what is covered in the online classes. They could ask questions from mostly very experienced instructors. Now they just take a quick test online and are convinced that they are knowledgeable boaters. The thinking is that an online class and test are better than nothing but the online classes killed the in person classes that actually did make a much more knowledgeable boater.
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:57 AM   #44
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Online courses for boating safety are all a joke and a money grab. THEY ARE WORTHLESS AND WORSE THAN NOTHING because some people may actually think they are now knowledgeable to boat safely. The lack of value in online learning has come to the fore in this covid crisis as schools and universities are switching to "distance learning." Some colleges are offering a pittance of a discount on tuition because they are fully aware of the lack of quality in this type education. Students are getting wise and suing for greater percentages of refunds, and some are willing to risk being at in-person classes rather than this online BS. I'd rather have my kid just perform some useful function totally outside of the "learning environment" for a year or so until classes resume than to accept a diploma from a high school doing online classes.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:03 AM   #45
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I've taken both the online and in person courses (2 different states). And honestly, I'd say they were both worthless. Both spent way too much time blabbing about trailering and launch ramp safety (should be a separate course for trailered boats). Plenty of stuff about MSDs and such too. And both didn't go nearly deep enough into COLREGS or a lot of other useful / important stuff like mentioning that "no wake speed" is different for different boats, and a whole lot of other information that would make people better boaters.

For the online learning thing in general, how well it works (assuming a well planned and well structured online class) seems to depend on what the class is teaching and also the students. Some people do well in that kind of environment, others just don't and either don't learn much, or don't have the motivation to do the work, etc.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:23 AM   #46
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In addition to the fog horn my AIS is very helpful

Yes, AIS has value and tell you when someone is close, especially big stuff... but it does have a lag and probably not the best when you get close. That's where radar shines.


I could also argue for bright lights, like spreader lights that may be visible for a hundred+ feet or so.



For the most part, I think most of use prefer not to operate in fog, but it happens. I've had my share.


Question: I've been told the FLIR does have some advantages in fog (infrared type). Certainly not long distance, but a few hundred feet would be great. Any truth to this? Don't have one of those.... yet.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:24 AM   #47
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Man, who would have guessed that a simple statement would generate so much discussion. My intention was to merely mention that Canada has a requirement for a PCOC, that "you only have to have money" wasn't good enough. Next time I'll just shut up.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:19 AM   #48
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Man, who would have guessed that a simple statement would generate so much discussion. My intention was to merely mention that Canada has a requirement for a PCOC, that "you only have to have money" wasn't good enough. Next time I'll just shut up.

Posting is not like raising your own child...it's like hatching a wild bird and seeing it fly wherever it wants.


Some times you get some good answers, you almost always get some bad answers and invariably you get answers to questions you never have dreamed of.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:28 AM   #49
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and invariably you get answers to questions you never have dreamed of.

That's one of the things I like about this forum. I get answers for problems which I didn't even know I had. I read a lot of these threads simply because I don't know what I don't know in some of these areas!
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:59 AM   #50
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That's one of the things I like about this forum. I get answers for problems which I didn't even know I had. I read a lot of these threads simply because I don't know what I don't know in some of these areas!
True...but it is nice when the new topic goes to another better titled thread and someone can answer the OP's question without it being lost in the clutter.
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:51 AM   #51
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I think the PCOC is a good start, if the course is done with the intent of learning something, instead of just passing the test. My son did the course when he was 12 honestly and learned a fair amount. He also got his Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Certificate, and was able to peddle both into a great summer job for years as a assistant wharfinger.

Hopefully the PCOC it will ramp up proficiency over time, and give some teeth to enforcement and further legislation. I believe that it is the first step in a gradual transformation to outright licensing.

I recall the howls of indignation when people had to take it. Imagine if it was harder to get?
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:31 PM   #52
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I think the PCOC is a good start, if the course is done with the intent of learning something, instead of just passing the test. ...
Hopefully the PCOC it will ramp up proficiency over time, and give some teeth to enforcement and further legislation. I believe that it is the first step in a gradual transformation to outright licensing.
?
I hope you're right. Increases in recreational marine traffic are likely to be a motivator. There were over a hundred boats on buoys and at anchor in Montague Harbour this past weekend. There would probably have been more if the border was open.
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:24 PM   #53
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On the Queen Mary II, they used one of the two horns off the QM1, since two was overkill. On a passage to London, 5 of 8 days were fogged out so bad you couldn't see down to the waterline.
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:50 PM   #54
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If you spend $100 and dedicate 30 minutes of your time to install this little box connected to your horn control, you'll solve your problems with non-compliance.

Mine is connected to my Kalenberg horns (Thanks, TT!). It's a real game changer for me when operating in the fog.

FogMate

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Old 08-05-2020, 02:18 PM   #55
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If you spend $100 and dedicate 30 minutes of your time to install this little box connected to your horn control, you'll solve your problems with non-compliance.

Mine is connected to my Kalenberg horns (Thanks, TT!). It's a real game changer for me when operating in the fog.

FogMate

Does it work with and electric horn?
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:19 PM   #56
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Does it work with and electric horn?
Yup. Works fine with my electric horn. As long as there's a way to electrically trigger your horn (electric horn, solenoid for an air horn, etc.), it'll work.
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:21 PM   #57
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Trying to find a supplier in Canada.
Exchange rate and cross-border shipping are murder.
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #58
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Yup. Works fine with my electric horn. As long as there's a way to electrically trigger your horn (electric horn, solenoid for an air horn, etc.), it'll work.
So I assume there is a switch to put it into fog mode?
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:27 PM   #59
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So I assume there is a switch to put it into fog mode?
If you look through the manual for it, there are a few ways to wire it. I used the most basic wiring for mine. So if you flip the nav lights on and give a quick toot within 3 seconds, it'll start a fog pattern. When you turn the nav lights off, it'll stop. If you don't hit the horn within 3 seconds of turning on the nav lights, then it does nothing.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:48 AM   #60
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If you look through the manual for it, there are a few ways to wire it. I used the most basic wiring for mine. So if you flip the nav lights on and give a quick toot within 3 seconds, it'll start a fog pattern. When you turn the nav lights off, it'll stop. If you don't hit the horn within 3 seconds of turning on the nav lights, then it does nothing.
The other option (what I did) is to wire it to a switch. In my case, it's a SPDT switch; up for making way in fog, down for not making way. In a sailboat you could do steaming and sailing, or add even more switches. The manual also tells how you can select different signals based on the number of times you toggle a switch, as above. Someone put a lot of thought into this product!

Overall, it was one of the best $100 I've ever spent on a boat. When I sold my last boat, the FogMate site was down and I thought they'd gone out of business, so I de-installed it to bring to my current boat.
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