engines raw water pump emergency pumping

[kev_rm]

Originally Posted by O C Diver

My JD 4045 raw water pump is 35 GPM at max RPM. Each of my big bilge pumps is 160% of that. They also aren't pushing the water through 2 heat exchangers.

Ted

Do you have monster bilge pumps? I am just comparing directly (visually) the volume my electric bilge pumps are outputting vs. what's coming out of the exhaust at idle and its really no contest. Raw water pumps are winning. Plus conceptually... the impeller size, hose size, and RPM.. not to mention just energy input... kinda wondering if GPM rating of bilge pumps are bogus?

EDIT: the last garden hose I measured was would fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 45 seconds, just for reference. 35gpm would be insane.

[koliver]

I don't think my engines dump more than a few litres of water out of the exhaust pipe a minute. Add the potential harm to the engines of sucking up something that stops the flow altogether, when you are sucking from the bilge. Sure, some of us have nice, clean bilges, but add an uncontrolled flow of water into the bilge and stuff will get washed down and arrive at the sucking water intake.

What I have in my boat, is a Y valve on the macerator pump that discharges the holding tank. It is easily accessible and the other branch of the Y goes to a bilge pickup, complete with a screen that has 1/4" holes, so anything that gets through the pickup will get crunched in the macerator on its way out. The capacity of this pump is about 600 gph, so not sufficient by itself, but way better than what my engine cooling pickup could do and way safer.

[North Baltic sea]

it seems that in relation to money and work would be smart to build this simple emergency pump "last hope" possible before the sinking. Thanks for the pictures which made this system. # 17 image seimerkki easy to implement, and in time of need to open and close the second valve. I am thinking of is just the same at the point where the vessel sink begins to melt down raw water pump or it blocking the heat exchanger or the other. if the boat sinks must then be opened and repaired throughout the boats.

I have a bilge pump 3 x 700 gal / h, but it is not much even if the gland fails. from one medium to pronze valve under 1/1/2 foot depth of water will be about 1,600 gal of water in an hour. if a bigger hole that was it, and vessel sinks. I remember reading Nick Calender commented that the indicated power the electric pump is only about 50% of the declared virtually installed in the boat. and it is also possible that, they do not work, is congested, or decompose in doing so.

here in the Archipelago Sea is really able to get to the bottom of the hole when adventuring in places where there is no official route of ships. Also, if the base bushing breaks down, the water becomes hard and yes a lot.


three times I have received a grounding stone, fortunately, did not come to the bottom of the hole thanks to Solid laminated floor, I do not want to think about what shandwits the bottom. fiber glass disintegrated yes, but not holes and leaks.


Nice video how water come in and tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5PDuXvqL7c

[HopCar]

Keith I like your idea about using the macerator pump. I hadn't thought of putting a Y valve in the intake.

You sound like one of those blow boat guys who would rather let their boat sink than risk overheating the engine. Don't get mad at me, I'm just poking a little fun.

Actually with a strum box on the pick up and running the water through the sea strainer, it's unlikely you'll overheat the engine.

How big is your engine? I bet the pump has at least a 1" hose on it and it can move close to a 1000 gph.

Bilge pumps are like time machines. The more pumping capacity you have, the more time you have to deal with the flooding.

[North Baltic sea]

Originally Posted by HopCar

Keith I like your idea about using the macerator pump. I hadn't thought of putting a Y valve in the intake.

You sound like one of those blow boat guys who would rather let their boat sink than risk overheating the engine. Don't get mad at me, I'm just poking a little fun.

Actually with a strum box on the pick up and running the water through the sea strainer, it's unlikely you'll overheat the engine.

How big is your engine? I bet the pump has at least a 1" hose on it and it can move close to a 1000 gph.

Bilge pumps are like time machines. The more pumping capacity you have, the more time you have to deal with the flooding.

Same washdovn pumps make this T-valve and hose bilg

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by koliver

What I have in my boat, is a Y valve on the macerator pump that discharges the holding tank. It is easily accessible and the other branch of the Y goes to a bilge pickup, complete with a screen that has 1/4" holes, so anything that gets through the pickup will get crunched in the macerator on its way out. The capacity of this pump is about 600 gph, so not sufficient by itself, but way better than what my engine cooling pickup could do and way safer.

Oh, my. Thanks for a great idea!

Happens our holding tank macerator pump has been crapped out (so to speak, sorry) for a few years now... I suspect mostly just from non-use. All the usual tricks -- manually spinning the axle, hammering on it, etc -- haven't worked...

But a Y-valve on the feeder to that pump's eventual replacement could do two more things for us: provide an easy (and legal) way to "rinse" (exercise) the pump periodically, and add a whole 'nother emergency pump-out capability in an underserved area in our boat. Of course it would also temporarily block sewage to the pump for future maintenance, but I'd already known about that.

Anyway, thanks for mentioning your set-up. Have a virtual beer on me!

-Chris

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

Do you have monster bilge pumps? I am just comparing directly (visually) the volume my electric bilge pumps are outputting vs. what's coming out of the exhaust at idle and its really no contest. Raw water pumps are winning. Plus conceptually... the impeller size, hose size, and RPM.. not to mention just energy input... kinda wondering if GPM rating of bilge pumps are bogus?

EDIT: the last garden hose I measured was would fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 45 seconds, just for reference. 35gpm would be insane.

Have 2 medium size pumps and 2 large size pumps. The medium are 30 GPM with a 1" discharge and the large are 60 GPM with a 1.5" discharge. Water running out the exhaust is deceptive, especially at idle. You can perceive it to look like a lot, but it's slower moving. Water being discharged from a bilge pump generally has a higher velocity. A similarly perceived volume at a significantly faster velocity can be several times more gallons per minute.

Ted

[BerettaRacer]

We are required by class regulations (Lloyds Register A100+) to have engine emergency suctions on our Cat3512"s.
Our Gilkes raw water pumps are about 3-4" suction & discharge, the stbd eng uses a straight into the bilge, valved off, suction.
The port engine, slightly different, has an electric clutched, belt driven 2" self priming centrifugal pump that takes a suction from the shipwide bilge suction manifold. And, it can also pull a sea water suction and discharge to the fire main system.
They are both required to be operational, and are tested by inspectors to meet regs on a regular basis.

[North Baltic sea]

Originally Posted by BerettaRacer

We are required by class regulations (Lloyds Register A100+) to have engine emergency suctions on our Cat3512"s.
Our Gilkes raw water pumps are about 3-4" suction & discharge, the stbd eng uses a straight into the bilge, valved off, suction.
The port engine, slightly different, has an electric clutched, belt driven 2" self priming centrifugal pump that takes a suction from the shipwide bilge suction manifold. And, it can also pull a sea water suction and discharge to the fire main system.
They are both required to be operational, and are tested by inspectors to meet regs on a regular basis.

thank you for sharing this information, to tell the effect on me that I will build my emergency solution to the raw water pump. why not make anything that can save you from unpleasant consequences, even if the need for any damages before a judge (the bilge Pump speed fuse)


I saw this member "Lepke" embarking on the debate "Marine Salvage and Insurance" thanks to him

https://www.workboat.com/blogs/marit...he-bilge-pump/

[dhays]

Originally Posted by koliver

What I have in my boat, is a Y valve on the macerator pump that discharges the holding tank. It is easily accessible and the other branch of the Y goes to a bilge pickup, complete with a screen that has 1/4" holes, so anything that gets through the pickup will get crunched in the macerator on its way out. The capacity of this pump is about 600 gph, so not sufficient by itself, but way better than what my engine cooling pickup could do and way safer.

I agree with the others Kieth, this is a great idea. I will be checking to see if this might be possible on my boat. I only have one macerator pump but it would be better than nothing. It would be a good use of a pump that otherwise I have only used a couple of times. Since my waste discharge needs to be secured by n my home waters, a Y valve secured in the position to drain the bilge would keep me legal as well as provide some additional dewatering capacity.

[North Baltic sea]

Originally Posted by dhays

I agree with the others Kieth, this is a great idea. I will be checking to see if this might be possible on my boat. I only have one macerator pump but it would be better than nothing. It would be a good use of a pump that otherwise I have only used a couple of times. Since my waste discharge needs to be secured by n my home waters, a Y valve secured in the position to drain the bilge would keep me legal as well as provide some additional dewatering capacity.

I am chek my blacwater emphty pump capasite 1100 litres hours abou 290 gal, It is good emergecy idea!

[Capt.Bill11]

Originally Posted by HopCar

You need a valve in the emergency pick up hose and the seacock.
First you open the valve in the emergency hose and then close the seacock.

It can also be done with one T/2 way valve.

The 2 way valve goes after the sea cock/strainer. So in one position the pump is drawing water from the sea cock/strainer and in the other position it draws it from a hose leading to a strainer foot/tube low in the bilge.

Or of course if your strainer is down stream of the thru hull and not integrated into the thru hull, the 2way valve can go after the thru hull and before the strainer if there is room for it.

When a boat is sinking any extra dewatering you can achieve can buy you just the extra time needed to find and deal with the leak. Or in some cases the extra time needed run the boat aground.

You can poo, poo the use of your engine as an extra pump all you want. But I've never been on a boat taking on water where I thought I had to many pumps to choose from. ��

And if you have a large engine/s with big raw water pump/s, you might be amazed at how much water they can move.

[BlindHog]

Check out engine room pics for Cabo sportfishers. They all come with a very cleanly installed emergency valves plumbed to the raw water intakes with big strainers. Granted those are large diesels that would move a bunch of water at high rpm but anything would help in an emergency.

[North Baltic sea]

I found facta cummins qsb Sherwods raw Waters pumps how many gallons/min. I think it is wery good capacity for emergency stop sinking


About gal/min
600 rmp / 15gal
1000rmp / 30gal
1500rmp / 40gal
2000rmp / 55gal
2500rmp / 65gal
3000rmp / 70gal
Sory,figures Litres / min

[HopCar]

North Baltic, do you know how big that pump is?

[North Baltic sea]

Originally Posted by HopCar

North Baltic, do you know how big that pump is?

My Cummins have 17000 series impeller and my number comes Sherwoods maintinance & repair manuals page 10 diagrams, Sherwoods say impeliers capasity not pump model.
Link sherwood manual
http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&...48073327,d.bGg

[sdowney717]

I have Sen Dure inline Y strainers on the intake hose to the raw water pumps.
I could remove the caps to use engines to pump out water. Not as easy as pulling a valve handle.
The strainer basket might fall out or stay in place without the cap. I suppose the basket could be modded to grip tighter the side with a wedge.

If you can start the engine, then you have 12vdc power to run bilge pumps.
I have lots of electric pumps, of course, they have to lift about 12 inches, so that reduces the output.
I have 2 separate sealed bilges. The 3700 pumps put out a lot of water.
My bilge pumps in the forward bilge
3700 Rule emergency pump
3700 Rule emergency pump
2000 Rule main pump
300 Rule shower pump

=9700 gph

Rear bilge
2000 Rule main pump
500 Rule pump on manual switch, needs a new auto switch as it failed.

=2500 gph

Likely a big 3 inch hole, boat still going down. Stuff it with foam.
Even small holes sink big boats.