Conception dive boat fire

[O C Diver]

I though I read something recently (in the last month or two) that DID come to a final conclusion about the origin of the fire. I remember it because it was conclusive that it was NOT lithium batteries, but of course I don't recall what the starting point was.


Ah, here it is https://www.latimes.com/california/...arted-in-plastic-trash-can-atf-report-reveals

From the link:

The ATF said it found no evidence to support that the fire started where a tangled web of lithium batteries had been charging, although it noted that such batteries can ignite when they malfunction.

As a result of the fire, Coast Guard regulators placed strict new standards on charging stations aboard vessels.

Not sure what evidence they think they could have found.

Ted

 

[SteveK]

From Your link TT I see the NTSB said most likely was caused by “the electrical distribution system of the vessel, unattended batteries being charged, improperly discarded smoking materials, or another undetermined ignition source.”

But ATF investigators conducted a fire test in the trash can (outside salon?) with a 3-knot breeze, and the flames consumed the salon area quickly. A little over two minutes into the re-created fire, the trash can collapsed, and by the 10-minute mark a nearby life ring was engulfed as a major blaze burned under the staircase.

Easy to blame the lithium batteries but ATF test gave an alternate source most likely from a cigarette butt in garbage can which just had 4 other cans emptied into it.
No mention of why that crew member emptied four cans at 235am and went back to bed, and whether he also was a smoker.

 

[Benthic2]

I assume that the guilty captain lost his Captain's License but it wasn't mentioned. What is the process for that ? This accident was so severe that it should be automatic, but how does the USCG monitor captains after they get certified? Is there a disciplinary process, like warning, suspension then revocation after collisions or sinkings ?

 

[Action]

The crew member (Mickey Kohls) that was up at 2:35am may have been smoking. Then recently put out cigarette in one of the four smaller cans. And then emptied the smaller cans into the larger bin. I have known some smokers that were rather tidy to a fault.

If the tangled web of wires in the battery charging station are had initiated/caused the fire, that area would have been much hotter to cause ignition. The area would have looked much different than surrounding areas because of the heat to generate ignition. Otherwise that battery charging area is consumed like everything else. It gets heated up by the existing fire. Just not as hot as the ignition area.

 

[Fletcher500]

I assume that the guilty captain lost his Captain's License but it wasn't mentioned. What is the process for that ? This accident was so severe that it should be automatic, but how does the USCG monitor captains after they get certified? Is there a disciplinary process, like warning, suspension then revocation after collisions or sinkings ?

As of 11/6/23:

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/06/1211110705/california-boat-fire-2019-captain-found-guilty

 

[Benthic2]

As of 11/6/23:

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/06/1211110705/california-boat-fire-2019-captain-found-guilty

Thanks for posting, but it didn't mention the captain's license status, which is what I was curious about.

 

[Fletcher500]

Thanks for posting, but it didn't mention the captain's license status, which is what I was curious about.

The CFR notes there are conditions where licenses can still be held after committing a crime on a case by case basis. In this case, the Captain of the vessel is facing 10 years in prison so it’s not very relevant in the big scheme of things.

 

[Action]

Yeah unless the Captain gets a shorter sentence or gets released early.

 

[Fletcher500]

Yeah unless the Captain gets a shorter sentence or gets released early.

Well if he does, he probably wont have much interest in being in charge of a boat with customers on board. Secondly, after the scale of magnitude of this maritime disaster it’s probably safe to assume the USCG will not allow him to even he wanted to.

 

[O C Diver]

As licenses expire every 5 years and I'm sure his was suspended pending the outcome of the investigation, if not already expired, it will be while he's in prison. One year after expiring, you need to reapply through the whole process, like you never had one. They also do a background check on new licenses and renewals, which alone will be a deal breaker. If his conviction isn't overturned, he'll never hold any license again, issued by the USCG.

Ted

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Bing generated this AI response when I clicked on the "what caused the fire" tab. It is incorrect.

"The MV Conception was a 75-foot dive boat that caught fire and eventually sank off the coast of Santa Cruz Island, California, United States on September 2, 2019 1. The boat was anchored overnight at Platts Harbor, a small undeveloped bay on the island’s north shore, with 33 passengers and 1 crew member asleep below decks when a fire broke out shortly after 3 a.m. Five crew members, whose sleeping quarters were on the top deck, survived while everyone else on board died 1. The cause of the fire was determined to be from lithium-ion batteries that were being charged on the boat 2. The captain of the boat was found guilty of manslaughter in November 2023 34.

I am sorry for the tragic loss of life in this incident."

 

[rgano]

Do you suppose the two surviving sister ships have had the escape routes modified to make them useable in an emergency?

 

[Blissboat]

The NTSB's final report on the November 2022 major fire aboard the 800' oil tanker S-Trust has found that it started in the battery of a lithium-ion handheld radio. The vessel was docked at an oil terminal on the lower Mississippi at Baton Rouge, when an unattended radio on the navigation desk spontaneously ignited and then exploded. The bridge was unattended at the time, however a security camera recorded the entire sequence. The fire was detected within minutes, and there were no injuries, but before the fire could be extinguished it caused approx. $3M in damage to the bridge. The photos are downright creepy.

The entire report is just 11 pages, and the conclusion is short, if not sweet: "The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the fire on the bridge of the S-Trust was the thermal runaway of one of the cells in a lithium-ion battery for a UHF handheld radio."

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MIR2323.pdf

Section 3.2, Lessons Learned, begins on p. 10, and seems to assume that we are all going to continue carrying electronics powered by Lithium-Ion batteries. Not sure what choices there are, at present, but the evidence is adding up that no one should turn their back on these devices.

 

[rgano]

I gather that if a lithium battery is not charging it pretty much won't be a hazard. Is that right?

Anyway, for some time now I have refrained from leaving any portable electronic device plugged into the house power.

 

[rslifkin]

I gather that if a lithium battery is not charging it pretty much won't be a hazard. Is that right?

Anyway, for some time now I have refrained from leaving any portable electronic device plugged into the house power.

The hazards are much less if it's not charging. Failures can occur any time if the battery is damaged or badly defective, but otherwise they're most likely if it's charging or something physically damages the battery.

 

[Blissboat]

I gather that if a lithium battery is not charging it pretty much won't be a hazard. Is that right?

I don't know, and the NTSB seems to avoid making that claim. Here's what they said about the S-Trust fire:

"A thermal runaway occurs when a cell overheats and combusts; it is a chemical reaction that can occur to any type of battery cell if it is damaged, shorted, overheated, defective, or overcharged. It is possible, based on the battery remains’ location among the charger remains, that one of the batteries had been left in the charger, which could have led to overcharging. However, a crewmember told investigators that the batteries were not in the chargers before the fire. Further, investigators were not able to find the missing cells, and, due to the explosion, the extensive heat from the thermal runaway reaction, and subsequent fire on the bridge, the battery cells may have been completely consumed. Therefore, investigators could not examine the first cell that exploded to determine the exact cause of the initial thermal runaway."

So, if a Lithium-Ion cell can cook-off even while not on the charger, which is apparently possible, then I guess the next logical question is whether that's more likely with Li-Ion cells than it would be for any other battery types.

It does seem that the best practice when charging handheld electronics powered by Lithium batteries is to do it where any incident will be noticed right away. For sure that means not overnight in an unattended space, which I have for sure done plenty of times.

Of course I can't help thinking about the Conception incident in light of this incident aboard a major commercial vessel, whose crew was awake and on-duty, and included a trained fire team, as you'd expect aboard any oil tanker.

 

[Action]

Of course I can't help thinking about the Conception incident in light of this incident aboard a major commercial vessel, whose crew was awake and on-duty, and included a trained fire team, as you'd expect aboard any oil tanker.........

..... and still caused 3 million dollars of damage!!!

Ouch!

 

[rgano]

The hazards are much less if it's not charging. Failures can occur any time if the battery is damaged or badly defective, but otherwise they're most likely if it's charging or something physically damages the battery.

Thanks for that. Makes sense.

 

[Fletcher500]

Do you suppose the two surviving sister ships have had the escape routes modified to make them useable in an emergency?

I am just guessing, but highly doubt it. Many of these older west coast sport fish and dive boats are configured the same and I haven’t read anything about it unless someone else on here knows more? The crew often sleeps in a bunk in the wheelhouse, but the rolling is worse up there so sometimes it was better to be in the lower racks with the passengers. But it was pretty obvious to me that if one wasn’t near the exit in a fire, sinking, or whatever, it was going to be very difficult to get out.

Also, I posted that same photo on CF a few weeks ago and no one commented on the two vessels.

 

[Benthic2]

In one of my prouder moments I tried to take apart a lithium-ion portable cell phone charger. ( basically a batter the size of a deck of cards ). I am not sure if my screwdriver touched something it shouldn't have, or just prying open the case caused the ignition, but WOW!!! It went from ho hum to fully engulfed, and roaring in a heartbeat. Super bright, hot and smoky. I had to toss it out the window before my room was full of smoke.

short video of what a lithium battery fire looks like:

 

[Steve DAntonio]

In response to the UHF radio fire aboard the tanker, I made the following post, with a link to that story.

I've been recommending dedicated, flame retardant charging surfaces aboard my client's vessels for a couple of years. In this specific case, however, such a charging station may not have helped since the aflame radio flew meteor-like across the compartment. Preventing that would require a charging container.

Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting, Inc.
Published by Steve D'Antonio · 3d ·
Portable Lithium Ion Battery Fire
Another portable lithium ion battery while charging fire. I implore owners to create flame and heat resistant charging surfaces for charging small LiIon batteries.
It's important to note, these are not the same chemistry as most lithium ion marine house batteries, which are lithium iron phosphate, or LFP.
From the article...
"To prevent thermal runaways and subsequent fires, the NTSB advises crews to follow manufacturers’ instructions for the care and maintenance of lithium-ion batteries, properly dispose of damaged batteries, avoid unsupervised charging, and keep batteries and chargers away from heat sources and flammable materials."

Attending the Marine Equipment Trade Show in Amsterdam

 

[twistedtree]

Bing generated this AI response when I clicked on the "what caused the fire" tab. It is incorrect.

"The MV Conception was a 75-foot dive boat that caught fire and eventually sank off the coast of Santa Cruz Island, California, United States on September 2, 2019 1. The boat was anchored overnight at Platts Harbor, a small undeveloped bay on the island’s north shore, with 33 passengers and 1 crew member asleep below decks when a fire broke out shortly after 3 a.m. Five crew members, whose sleeping quarters were on the top deck, survived while everyone else on board died 1. The cause of the fire was determined to be from lithium-ion batteries that were being charged on the boat 2. The captain of the boat was found guilty of manslaughter in November 2023 34.

I am sorry for the tragic loss of life in this incident."

There's a good example of AI creating chaf from wheat.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

And with that the seed of, "it was caused by a lithium ion battery" misinformation is planted.

 

[Fletcher500]

Many people in the US have been on a steady of diet of misinformation and disinformation well before AI showed up.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Too true. I've been inspired to write many articles because I read articles that were filled with misinformation.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I believe nothing until verified and or tested.

One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.