Bar Crossing - Rescue

[BandB]

Amid all the speculation, I'm going to say this. I assume the couple made the best possible decisions based on whatever the circumstances they found themselves in. Not commenting as to how they got into that situation. I also assume the USCG made the best possible decisions based on the circumstances. Until something factual to contradict my assumptions surfaces, I'll stick with the assumptions.

 

[Comodave]

The CGs mission is to save lives not to save property. If saving the property isn’t dangerous and is doable then they will save it. However if it is determined that it is too dangerous then they will save the lives if possible. In this case the towing must have been determined to be too dangerous.

 

[Benthic2]

Presumably the couple were under duress for some time before thier first call to the CG. Then, then they waited another 12 hours or so before they called again. They may not have eaten or slept for 24-36 hours. Stress is cumulative and as fatigue and exhaustion built and their physical strength declined they may not have been able to cope anymore. We hear often on this forum that "the boat can take more than the crew". I've never been through an ordeal like that, and am going to assume they did the best they could.

 

[slowgoesit]

So what? There's risk in everything. Including being suckered into pointless troll post replies.

You seem to have a pretty cavalier attitude toward the lives of Coasties in question . . . As a former helo pilot with one or two harrowing stories I could tell about assisting stupid people (not calling the two in the story stupid, not enough facts to make ANY determination on that) I hope . . .well, I really shouldn't say what I hope happens if you get in a bad situation for whatever reason . . .how does the saying go? If you can't say something nice . . .

 

[Boatfever]

This!

Presumably the couple were under duress for some time before thier first call to the CG. Then, then they waited another 12 hours or so before they called again. They may not have eaten or slept for 24-36 hours. Stress is cumulative and as fatigue and exhaustion built and their physical strength declined they may not have been able to cope anymore. We hear often on this forum that "the boat can take more than the crew". I've never been through an ordeal like that, and am going to assume they did the best they could.

Exactly.

I failed to mention in my previous post. More than one DeFever owner has mentioned the boat could take more than they could. Granted, the average DeFever 41, 44 or 49, etc owner is not in the 19 to 34 yr old demographic.

I've done an impromptu overnighter in surprise bad weather and it is a bit draining to say the least.

 

[oscar]

Not many of us coastal cruisers carry sea anchors, maybe we should.

Not making comments on this story.... too many unknowns.

To the drogue/sea anchor......Yes. They buy time, and under many circumstances can "hold" the boat in a reasonably stable position without it being under way, while covering minimal ground. Enough to take a nap or get some food in you.....

Preparedness is everything. Going out there with equipment and skill level that has no room for error regarding weather/sea state is taking a pretty good risk.

Personally I don't call the CG until I'm stepping UP into the life raft.

And yes, I have one of those too. And poopie suits and an EPIRB and a Pelican case for a ditch bag with papers, credit cards/money, .... and on and on.

 

[wkearney99]

You seem to have a pretty cavalier attitude toward the lives of Coasties in question . . .

Ah, the keyboard warrior, making his bold assumptions. Wrong, of course, but that doesn't fit your narrative.

As a former helo pilot with one or two harrowing stories I could tell about assisting stupid people (not calling the two in the story stupid, not enough facts to make ANY determination on that) I hope . . .well, I really shouldn't say what I hope happens if you get in a bad situation for whatever reason . . .how does the saying go? If you can't say something nice . . .

So, you're saying take your own advice?

 

[psneeld]

Keyboard warriors?


We are interested...lets hear of your favorite nighttime small boat hoist.



That may have some bearing on how people perceive this case and why a hoist was done versus other alternatives.

 

[wkearney99]

We are interested....

Ah yes, a favorite trolling tactic, exaggerating the whole "we" notion. A loser ploy, but hey, you run with it.

I'm grateful the Coasties put their lives at risk helping those in need. I'm likewise grateful their efforts saved the lives of the people that lost their boat during this incident. And yet some of you spineless nitwits want to twist that into some ego-boosting narrative. Well, good luck with that.

 

[psneeld]

I have been called spineless and a nitwit before but never in the same sentence.

My hat is off to you......

I hope there is more followup to the story in some other periodical rather than the news. Maybe some of the real reasons things were done a certain way will come out.

 

[slowgoesit]

Ah yes, a favorite trolling tactic, exaggerating the whole "we" notion. A loser ploy, but hey, you run with it.

I'm grateful the Coasties put their lives at risk helping those in need. I'm likewise grateful their efforts saved the lives of the people that lost their boat during this incident. And yet some of you spineless nitwits want to twist that into some ego-boosting narrative. Well, good luck with that.

My my, aren't WE a Grumpy Gills! Notice how I used the "WE" there, just for you!

 

[BruceK]

Using 'We" instead of "I" has royal connotations. For example "We are not amused",spoken by Queen Elizabeth. Perhaps referring to the activities of Prince Andrew and his deceased US sex enthusiast friend or more recently about "Harry"(the royal formerly called Prince).
But it could be used to suggest there is more than one person in favour of something,when there may be only one.

 

[fractalphreak]

Agree there is too much unknown to really be able be able to discuss much.

My only comment is the boat itself is a model known to be highly capable - while I agree the boat is almost always more capable than its humans, it would be highly educational for the rest of us to know, from an after-action learning standpoint, what led to the dramatic sequence of events, and what is in effect the loss of the boat.

The photos of that boat on the sand are almost shocking and sad.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Geez guy lets stay on topic and can the BS....

 

[hollywood8118]

It will be interesting to find out is there were any underlying issues, the coast guard video of the rescue shows the boat had a list for some reason.
Also look at the pic of the boat on the beach it appears to be a boat that needed basic maintenance.

It's not a good idea be headed down the coast at this time of year unless the boat was pretty much perfect. The boat appears to have a dirty bottom, barnacle buildup on the shaft that can be seen and just appears to be a bit run down. As the couple found out that coast can be totally unforgiving.. especially in winter. Just the dirty bottom, props and shafts may have cost them a knot or two and put them off on their arrival time and into changing weather and tides. But.. if they were accepting of the conditions of the running gear they may have neglected common maintenance in the E.R. also.

I am definitely hypothesizing and I may be totally off base and the boat could be a goldplater in the engine room, time will tell.

On a side note, I have such deep respect for the West Coast , especially in winter that the week before last I turned down the delivery of a brand new fast power cat from the PNW to Ensenada. A respected skipper did the trip and made it from Bellingham to Ventura in 2.5 days with two enroute fuel stops!. He planned right and had flat water for the entire trip. As much as I love those trips.. my respect for that coast and being pushed up against a trip to Florida where I am now made it a easy trip to turn down.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Spinner]

I wonder if you let out all your anchor line before you abandoned ship, would the boat "self-anchor" when it got to shallower water ?? If you left a cell phone plugged in on board, you could then track the vessel and return to it when conditions improved.

That’s a recommended technique when adrift in deep water but with a shore approaching!

 

[markpierce]

I suspect crossing the bar would have been worse. I know plenty of people who have been told not to cross the bar and to tough it out. Cross the bar, you die. Tough it out, you puke. Take your pick. But now there appears to be a third alternative. I just hope the boat owners/operators pay for the rescue and the salvage of the boat.

Whenever I got seasick (hasn't happened in decades), it seemed that death was preferred.

 

[Southern Boater]

........ If those were not options, a sea anchor would have been nice to settle down the boat and rest the crew. Not many of us coastal cruisers carry sea anchors, maybe we should.

Yes agree, a proper full size parachute sea anchor to hold the head directly to the weather with minimal drift is essential equipment for serious offshore motorboat cruisers.
Anybody that has experienced propulsion failure, working in a hot engine room while the boat is rolling its gunwales under will relate to this concept.

I remember going aboard Scott and Mary Flanders "Egret" (N46) after an extensive sea crossing, with the big parachute always ready to deploy.

 

[twistedtree]

Whenever I got seasick (hasn't happened in decades), it seemed that death was preferred.

For certain, and I suspect that's what's at the core of this. My guess is that the crew was sick to the point of doing ANYTHING to get off that boat, including paying for the rescue, and losing the boat. ANYTHING, just get us the fork off this boat. So they did.

 

[psneeld]

At some point the USCG may have strongly recommended evacuation. If the crew had been sick for days, dehydration, especially in older people I believe can be serious ( even people in their 50's)

Typical of many SAR cases....out of hundreds of bits of info the command center has, sometimes it's the smallest of things that can trigger what and when response is initiated.

 

[sunchaser]

Most of us likely remember Bshillam's Vancouver boat purchase and delivery to Portland thread of two or so months ago. Lots of good back and forth regarding weather windows and timing. Bshillam did it right and had a relatively uneventful trip.

The poor souls on the DF 44 embarked on the aftermath of a few ferocious storms where winds at times in later February were clocked at 70 knots. The winds had dropped but not so much the seas where offshore buoys were showing 10 to 12' close spaced waves at end of February. A better understanding of their travel dates could pin down the exact buoy measured sea conditions leading up to the abandon ship time. But wow, that DF held up well all things considering.

 

[Fletcher500]

Regarding west coast weather in the Winter, I was planning on a departure window of 3/14 to 3/16 to head up to Santa Cruz Island from San Diego. The models were looking great, until this morning. I will stay put for another week.

 

[Baker]

Yes agree, a proper full size parachute sea anchor to hold the head directly to the weather with minimal drift is essential equipment for serious offshore motorboat cruisers.
Anybody that has experienced propulsion failure, working in a hot engine room while the boat is rolling its gunwales under will relate to this concept.

I remember going aboard Scott and Mary Flanders "Egret" (N46) after an extensive sea crossing, with the big parachute always ready to deploy.

I was under the impression heaving to at an angle to the sea anchor would be preferred??

 

[Southern Boater]

I was under the impression heaving to at an angle to the sea anchor would be preferred??

Maybe a personal thing, but with my parachute anchor (as opposed to a drogue), any angle beyond directly into the waves that promotes a roll factor is not what I prefer, pitching is a lot easier to cope with.

 

[Toki]

I was under the impression heaving to at an angle to the sea anchor would be preferred??

That may be more of a sailboat thing, as when the sails are rigged to heave to, the boat is at an angle to the wind/waves. In fact, I haven't heard the term "heave to" applied to power boats.

 

[Baker]

That may be more of a sailboat thing, as when the sails are rigged to heave to, the boat is at an angle to the wind/waves. In fact, I haven't heard the term "heave to" applied to power boats.

They most certainly do. Even ships do it. And you can certainly do it with a drogue on a powerboat. The idea is that it creates a slick on the weather side of the boat that prevents waves from breaking. It is much preferred to lying now to where steep seas will cause pounding and potential equipment failure due to extreme fluctuations in the load.

 

[Shrew]

I was under the impression heaving to at an angle to the sea anchor would be preferred??

Maybe a personal thing, but with my parachute anchor (as opposed to a drogue), any angle beyond directly into the waves that promotes a roll factor is not what I prefer, pitching is a lot easier to cope with.

I think there is some truth in the middle here. I agree that the boat feels better when you take a wave square on the nose. Taking it at a 45 introduces some roll, which is less comfortable.

I was under the impression that from a technique perspective, springing the parachute prevents the bow from getting stuffed in a large steep face as can happen if you take the way on square. The parachute, like any anchor prevents the bow from rising quickly and easily and the bow can get stuffed in steep, tall faces.

I believe the technique of springing the parachute is to compromise some comfort (still better than rolling beam to) for safety.

Obviously if the waves aren't that large, springing the anchor isn't necessary.

 

[Baker]

I believe the technique of springing the parachute is to compromise some comfort (still better than rolling beam to) for safety.

Obviously if the waves aren't that large, springing the anchor isn't necessary.

Springing the anchor to a 45 degree angle is to INCREASE comfort. The idea being that the "slick" or "wake" of the boat to the WEATHER side of the boat produces a shadow where waves flatten and do not break. Large ships do this much like a sailboat....except they use rudder and a little steam. Just the right amount of rudder and throttle and the boat holds at an angle to the weather. The boat is still moving through the water due to leeway. And the subsequent "wake" smooths the water to weather. Have you ever followed someone close astern because they are breaking the weather/waves ahead....same deal here. The deeper the keel, the more the effect. Obviously a planing boat would not benefit much as it is mostly a flat bottom. But I boat like a Nordhavn with a deep keel, it will help. Google "heaving to" and read about it. It is a common storm tactic....granted, mostly used by sailboats. But it is 95% sailboats out the cruising the oceans.

 

[rgano]

One of the reasons vessels sometimes need to quarter into the seas is to shorten the effective length of the vessel to reduce hog and sag stresses in very heavy seas - not so much a problem in rec vessels. If we needed to ease the ride in destroyers, we never hit them head on if for no other reason than to avoid direct impingement of waves onto the forward gus, which are not all that watertight. But at five knots we could quarter into just about anything.

 

[rslifkin]

One of the reasons vessels sometimes need to quarter into the seas is to shorten the effective length of the vessel to reduce hog and sag stresses in very heavy seas - not so much a problem in rec vessels. If we needed to ease the ride in destroyers, we never hit them head on if for no other reason than to avoid direct impingement of waves onto the forward gus, which are not all that watertight. But at five knots we could quarter into just about anything.

That same idea can make the pitching less violent (albeit with a little bit of roll added) in steep, close together waves. Particularly on a planing hull boat or anything else with a lot of buoyancy forward where it will follow the shape of the waves strongly rather than letting the bow dig in a bit and rise more slowly.