Anchorage mishap

[Guilhem]

The captain of the other boat called me today, regarding insurance and such, we had a pleasant conversation about Grand Banks, and we also spent some time going over the mishap again and what we could have done better.
I clarified why he went back and forth to the flybridge: he had no control of the windlass from the lower helm. He decided to get one installed. I think it makes sense to be able to operate the windlass from the bow, but also from both lower helm and flybridge..
From our conversation and debriefing, I believe the best course of action would have been for me to dump the rode, cutting it off if need be, and motor away. This would require caution since I had another boat behind me, and the dumping of the rode would get me closer. Maybe I should have kept the snubber on, dumped the rode, and only once it was clear, removed the snubber and quickly engage gear, so that I wouldn't drift back.
I take the point from ghost in post #24 above of having a shackle between chain and line, with enough length of line so that when unrolling the whole rode, the shackle ends up on deck, so that it can be undone without having to to back down to the V-berth cabin and fumble with a knife without seeing outside what is going on.
And, I will get another fender ready to be deployed. One at the bow, one aft, I think this is cheap insurance...
Thanks all for the comments.

 

[Guilhem]

If your dinghy is a inflatable you can use it as a big fender. Have done that.
+1 on using dinghy push offending boat out of your path. Have done that and then called harbor master to help get dragging boat to a safe place.

The restaurant tender is a RIB with a 50 hp outboard. But he has a pulpit in front, and tried to push side-ways: this didn't work, too much wind and his tender would just slip. I don't think my 5 hp dinghy would have been any good. Plus, it was not in the water, so this would have taken me some time to launch it, and would have required leaving my best position in front. But in other cases, yes, this is indeed something to consider.

 

[wkearney99]

I found out something that could be an issue with our new boat’s anchor is that Formula apparently bolts the anchor chain bitter end inside the rope locker, but out of reach so you can’t undo it.

It's probably worth changing that. Our EB47 has a 25' length of floating 3-ply attached to the chain and the pad eye in the locker. This way if I run out the chain I won't be putting a sudden shock load on the pad eye and/or lose the chain without some sort of marker to find it.

I'd venture it's easier to change the way the chain is fastened now and then be able to use just a regular sharp knife to cut it if/when there's an emergency later. A grinder's going to make one hell of a mess, lots of hot metal shards that will UNDOUBTEDLY melt their way into the adjacent gelcoat and cause rust streaks forever after. Not to mention eye and fire hazards.

 

[TexasBryan]

Hopefully there was no damage to your boat, if so, his insurance will not cover it!

 

[soin2la]

Hopefully there was no damage to your boat, if so, his insurance will not cover it!

C'mon, Bryan, you can't just lob out an incendiary Facebook style comment like that and not explain why?

 

[TexasBryan]

C'mon, Bryan, you can't just lob out an incendiary Facebook style comment like that and not explain why?

Please see the post titled "Insurance Question".

I had a similar incident to OP last year and learned a few things about unexpected expenses that may come about while you are sound asleep and ties to the dock.

 

[soin2la]

Please see the post titled "Insurance Question".

I had a similar incident to OP last year and learned a few things about unexpected expenses that may come about while you are sound asleep and ties to the dock.

Similar doesn't count. You made a blanket statement that "his insurance will not cover it" and I want to know why?

 

[TexasBryan]

Well, hopefully if it ever happens to you you will have different results. In my case when the other boat dragged anchor, his insurance said that since the other party was not operating the boat, it was an act of god, apparently my insurance felt the same way.

Another example, if the neighbors tree blows down and damages your house, that is on your insurance, not the neighbors.

 

[FWT]

Some more woulda shoulda coulda:

How about, let out more chain for swing room, with the anchor still down motor a bit to one side and as he backs down into "your space" get alongside and tie him off, fenders as a buffer of course. Now two boats held by just your anchor, as in some picnic rafting.

Too clever by half. But just a thought.

 

[Jeff F]

Lots of good suggestions and comments. I have a rope tether on the end of the chain rode that allows it to be easily cut loose when it's fully out. That seems prudent to me rather than relying on a grinder. On my sailboat I carry a large set of bolt cutters as well that can cut chain or rigging in case of a dismasting. It's worth going through these scenarios to make sure you have a good plan.

I'd add in reference to another recent thread that I'll sometimes keep my instruments on at anchor to monitor the boats around me as well as my own position. I find it comforting to have tagged possible threats on radar, so I can tell on an ongoing basis whether they're getting closer. I find my distance judgement isn't that good, especially at night or in foul conditions. Better monitoring may give you more time to respond and more situation awareness. I haven't used perimeter alarms too much, but they also can help alert you when there is a crunch imminent.

 

[psneeld]

I love the "I would've just done this".....

Based on what has been posted so far providing critical/detailed info....ROTFLMAO.

 

[SteveK]

I was surprised the tender with the 50 HP was not better prepared.
Tender bow line on aft cleat of other boat and push to hold position while captain sorts it out.

 

[Comodave]

I was surprised the tender with the 50 HP was not better prepared.
Tender bow line on aft cleat of other boat and push to hold position while captain sorts it out.

Or use a spring line from the tender…

 

[Mac2]

I use a small fender ball instead of a crab float to mark my anchor (no confusion). It uses a pulley and weight system so that the ball is directly above the anchor. I am not shy about telling people they're too close to my anchor, before they drop their anchor.

I've never used more than half my anchor rode. From my rough calculation, you had 125' in the water. Would suggest that you double the rode (so you could put more out), even if you have to switch from chain to rope.

Ted

I did the same thing. I even marked the buoy with “anchor”. You guessed it-ski boats thought it was for them to tie to. Finally got rid of it after this happened multiple times!

 

[jleonard]

In my case when the other boat dragged anchor, his insurance said that since the other party was not operating the boat, it was an act of god, apparently my insurance felt the same way.
/QUOTE]

A marina tried to pull that on a friend of mine. They dropped the boat while launching it. The hydraulics on the lift failed.
It was easily refuted by a simple letter from a lawyer.
Easy to find fault if you look.

I think the fact that the boater just did a "drop and go" without testing his stability would do it.

 

[wkearney99]

In my case when the other boat dragged anchor, his insurance said that since the other party was not operating the boat, it was an act of god, apparently my insurance felt the same way.
/QUOTE]

A marina tried to pull that on a friend of mine. They dropped the boat while launching it. The hydraulics on the lift failed.
It was easily refuted by a simple letter from a lawyer.
Easy to find fault if you look.

I think the fact that the boater just did a "drop and go" without testing his stability would do it.

Those circumstances are entirely different. A machine that failed while an operator was using it is not the same as an anchor pulling loose due to weather/tide conditions.

The drop-and-go accusation is entirely subjective. Someone with decades of experience operating a boat might argue they had no reason to believe the anchoring wasn't secure and it would be difficult to "prove" otherwise. Not unless you had video evidence showing no genuine attempt to make it more secure that just dropping it.

 

[psneeld]

It's not criminal law...

Don't these often go to either arbitration or civil law where "proof" has shades of gray?

Bring out the lawyers and quick resolution often happens because it is cheaper than the alternative.

 

[Guilhem]

Good suggestion on keeping the radar alarm activated. I didn't, will try that now.
My boat didn't get any damage. I went to check it today, from the dinghy, to make sure I get a good view of the bow, it's all good. The insurance companies are going to figure out what to do, I suspect his is going to cover for his own damage.
Regarding the tender, his job is really to pick up customers at boats and give them a ride to the restaurant, initially he didn't do much until I called him and asked if he could help. He wasn't so efficient pushing the boat away, but gave a good hand taking my chain off the other boat's anchor.

 

[Hippocampus]

Don’t get this act of god business.

If he dragged he didn’t anchor correctly. That’s not a act of god. It matters little if he was on or off the boat. In fact the prudent sea man doesn’t leave until he’s fully convinced he has a good set and won’t drag.
When we were anchoring a lot around charter boats and saw first hand how poorly some anchored (inadequate amount of rode out for depth or conditions, poor set in grass etc.) I stopped by the charterers business and asked. At least that one said the charter would be fully responsible for damages and was insured against same.
My understanding is admiralty law assigns proportional blame. Sometimes silly like not flying a black ball gives you some liability when an idiot jet skier strikes you amidships. But in the OP the other boat dragged. There wasn’t a hurricane or other extreme circumstances. Surely that vessel bears the majority of fault.
A lawyer tried to explain fault, liability and the other legalese to me. I’m sure I’m using the wrong lexicon but the concept remains.

 

[wkearney99]

If he dragged he didn’t anchor correctly. That’s not a act of god. It matters little if he was on or off the boat. In fact the prudent sea man doesn’t leave until he’s fully convinced he has a good set and won’t drag.

Nonsense. I've anchored out of hundreds of times, and each time I've been convinced it had a secure bite. Of those, three times conditions unexpectedly turning sour proved otherwise. Thankfully without any damage to us or others. I'd argue you can't know for certain that your anchoring is going to hold. Especially not when conditions exceed the known forecast for the area. Best you can do is a good faith assumption based on experience.

 

[BruceK]

Don’t get this act of god business.

If he dragged he didn’t anchor correctly. That’s not a act of god. It matters little if he was on or off the boat. In fact the prudent sea man doesn’t leave until he’s fully convinced he has a good set and won’t drag...

. What happened speaks for itself, ie he dragged soon after dropping,fouling the affected boat`s rode. On balance it`s a defective anchoring.

At that point, (here in Australia at least)the onus shifts back to the "anchorer" to prove he anchored safely. I`d be surprised if he can in the circumstances described.

 

[markpierce]

I'm a big fan of fenders, usually employing ten; five on each side.

 

[Austinsailor]

Been there

We’ve been there. Couple times.

#1: ask them to move. Some will. Some will get an attitude.

If #1 doesn’t work, we just move. Pisses you off that you have to, but cleanly avoids the drama and whatever else follows.

 

[wkearney99]

If #1 doesn’t work, we just move. Pisses you off that you have to, but cleanly avoids the drama and whatever else follows.

But does it though if they dropped their rode across yours? As seems was the case in the original post.

I've never had to deal with it but I'd wonder what complications come up if your moving "has to" disturb the anchoring of another boat. My initial concern would be what (if any) liability would I be taking on myself regarding the other vessel?

 

[FIRE]

It did give me an excuse to buy a new tool, a cordless grinder. Just for this type situation. If I need to release the anchor in an emergency I can use the grinder to cut the chain. I can attach a fender to some small stuff and tie it to the bitter end of the chain. Then I can recover the anchour and chain later after the emergency has passed. I keep about 40’ of 1/4” nylon for this purpose.[/QUOTE]

Everyone should consider 10 or 15' of line at the end of an all anchor rode with the bitter end securely attached within your anchor locker. That way any decent and hopefully readily available serated knife can cut through quickly and hopefully avoid danger. The thought of retrieving a cordless grinder for this purpose is loaded with potential failure such as: Can you find the grinder? Is it easy enough to get to in an emergency situation? Is the grinder battery charged? Did you wear out the wheel on another project and intend to replace it but hadn't yet? And of course....can you find it?

 

[MOJO]

I found out something that could be an issue with our new boat’s anchor is that Formula apparently bolts the anchor chain bitter end inside the rope locker, but out of reach so you can’t undo it. It did give me an excuse to buy a new tool, a cordless grinder. Just for this type situation. If I need to release the anchor in an emergency I can use the grinder to cut the chain. I can attach a fender to some small stuff and tie it to the bitter end of the chain. Then I can recover the anchour and chain later after the emergency has passed. I keep about 40’ of 1/4” nylon for this purpose.

Middle of the night when it's raining and blowing like stink and a boat is drifting down on you might not the best time to employ your grinder to cut your anchor chain. A better option if you can't get to the attachment point of the chain is to cut it apart now at an accessible spot in the anchor locker and then tie it back together with some 5/8" nylon rope. That way you can easily cut the anchor loose when in extremis by simply cutting the nylon rope with a sharp knife. Much easier and faster than grinding away on the chain up on deck while stuff is hitting the fan all around...

 

[psneeld]

The grinder and knife is for the others guys chain...especially if they anchored close and you asked them to move.

Couple years ago an older couple anchored nearby where I and a dozen others had been anchored for days.

At 0130 am in a cold front blow in Wrightsville Beach, NC, this 30 foot Cape Dory T boned me and took a gouge out of my bow with its bowsprit because it was sailing on its anchor.

Of course I am on deck in boxers (fortunately for the little old lady on the CD) and I told her she had to leave the Anchorage. She decided to argue with me the unsafe act of leaving in wind and tidal current in the dark. I just said the first hit was free and the next would bring the USCG with bad results for her. I went back to bed and slept like a baby.

She and her husband stayed up all night with the engine running, backing down just prior to Tboning me again and again.

Fortunately they didn't hit me again and were gone before I had my cup of coffee.

The USCG would have been the least of their worries after I cut their anchor line/chain. Easier to untangle someone's tackle when their boat is no longer attached.

There was over a mile of anchorage completely available to anchor and an easy move...I had little sympathy for their fate

 

[RickyD]

I found out something that could be an issue with our new boat’s anchor is that Formula apparently bolts the anchor chain bitter end inside the rope locker, but out of reach so you can’t undo it. It did give me an excuse to buy a new tool, a cordless grinder. Just for this type situation. If I need to release the anchor in an emergency I can use the grinder to cut the chain. I can attach a fender to some small stuff and tie it to the bitter end of the chain. Then I can recover the anchour and chain later after the emergency has passed. I keep about 40’ of 1/4” nylon for this purpose.

I had the same issue only I added the line to the end of the chain and bolted it to the boat. Enough line to pull all the way up and over the pulpit. I'd add a float there and cut the line. Knives are always handy on my boat.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, I always have a knife in my pocket. I was planning to cut the chain and splice in some line, but if I did that immediately I wouldn’t have had an excuse to buy my new grinder. My wife actually insisted that I buy one right away…

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

I like to stop these situations before they become situations. In this case, when the guy started anchoring too close for my comfort I would have called out and/or radioed him and politely asked him to move farther away. I had this happen last summer at Roche Harbor, WA. A guy and his girlfriend started to drop their anchor close to our boat. It was high tide at the time, and low tide was something like 10+ feet lower, so with plenty of rode out he could have swung into us.

After I politely asked him to anchor farther away he told me he was fine. I told him he may think he was fine but that I did not and he had no reason to jeopardize me, my family, or my boat when there was plenty of room farther away. He threw a few choice words my way and then moved his boat.

There's a funny website that lets people describe a situation and their response followed by the question: AITA (Am I The A**hole?). Aside from the other guy and his girlfriend I don't think many people would say that I was in this situation.