Southport Marina Sham

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

After a few williwas on Kodiak and been on the waters all around the western hemisphere.....I think it's safe to say, no matter where you boat, there's good and bad. Pick your poison.

A very true statement....

 

[Hippocampus]

Every place I’ve been marina and my
Insurance requires a storm plan usually haul
and tie down, leave or be on a predestinated storm rated mooring or slip with storm rated multiple web between piers.
Either the slips were storm rated or not. If not and if
At any time they told you that you’re liable . It’s your responsibility to follow the weather predictions. If named storm it’s obvious. If predicted it’s obvious

 

[4fun1]

My guess is that the insurance companies will probably just pay the $20k and have a no fault settlement so as to not make a precedent. Probably not worth the legal fees to fight it.

That is unless a particular insurer has a lot of insureds involved.

 

[SoWhat]

I'm trying to follow the logic here: The marina contract says (in effect) "you are responsible for the damage to our marina that your boat causes". (i.e., you are not responsible for any damage that someone else's boat causes, nor the damage that everyone else's boat causes. Just the damage that only your boat causes).

Looking at the tangled aftermath of boats and debris -- I cannot see how anyone could honestly say just whose boat caused what damage to what dock.

I agree with your logic but....

If the marina files a civil suit, likely, and you have to hire a lawyer to defend, also likely, then you will be out of pocket for legal fees. Can't imagine a complicated civil case costing less the $20K. So practically speaking even though it might be onerous one would be better off submitting claim to insurance co, or negotiating an appropriate settlement.

My policy simply states I will be responsible for any damage to other boats or marina facilities and structures. Wide open to any interpretation. If marina claims my boat tore out their slip I would have to hire expert witness to contradict their claim if I wanted to contest it.

 

[Hippocampus]

One of the huge advantages of insurance is they not you hire the lawyers and have the contacts and deep pockets to get the best. They also will fight things you would not due to the implications for their other policy holders. Also they are better positioned to understand if a litigation is worth the money. So if the claim is significantly above the deductible would just turn it over to them after a discussion with them as to how they’re likely to proceed.

I’ve never made an insurance claim (knock on wood) wanting to keep my premiums low. That’s the balancing factor. Only you can decide the plus/minus of making a claim.

 

[trihartsfield]

Is it normal for a marina to NOT have insurance on their docks/piers? Do all marinas rely on the boat owners to pay damage to their mooring systems in case of a storm?

 

[psneeld]

Is it normal for a marina to NOT have insurance on their docks/piers? Do all marinas rely on the boat owners to pay damage to their mooring systems in case of a storm?

Not sure if anyone can really answer that as there a lot of naribas from little mom and pop types to mega corporations that may self insure.

But whether they have insurance or not, claiming the boats did the damage forces them to pay versus the marinas insurance.

Almost every marina I have been to lately also states in their rules, that any injuries sustained by you and your guests while at the marina is on you too, unless negligence ( maybe gross negligence, I forget) can be proven on their part. So tripping over a loose board is on the slip holder unless you show how you clearly and repeatedly contacted them it is a danger.

Again not a lawyer here or an insurance guy, but that is what has been explained to me at several levels of the parties.

 

[PMF1984]

Just a small point in defense of the marina (somewhat)

Coastal structures are designed by engineers to put up with stress from wind and waves. For the design engineer the starting question is how much stress. It’s an important question because whatever stress you design for, there is going to be some circumstance where the stress that was the design standard is exceeded.

The marina design has to accommodate the structure itself (I would guess a 100 year storm design for the marina structure) but also the same structure with a full load of boats. Lots of windage.

To solve the cost problem of designing a fully loaded marina to withstand a storm that only has a 1% chance of happening each year, marinas tell folks they have to find another place to stay during hurricane. They are not designed to hold all the floats and boats in place during a hurricane. So they tell folks they have to leave , or else.

If you were the insurance company for the marina, what would you think about all the boats that were there?

Complicating the issue was the late forecast for lighter winds that (as reported above) led the staff folks it was ok to stay put.

Then the tornado hit.

The damage was localized and due to the hurricane. So the marina insurance company should pay(?)

Except the tornado was spawned by the hurricane. And because of the hurricane, nobody was “supposed” to be there.

This case should be in a dictionary as a definition for FUBAR.

This case will settle because there is too much potential for the lawyers to make more than the value of the boats and marina.

 

[BandB]

Is it normal for a marina to NOT have insurance on their docks/piers? Do all marinas rely on the boat owners to pay damage to their mooring systems in case of a storm?

Is it common for them not to have insurance. No, they do not rely on boat owners and I've never known one to collect from a group of owners. I've known very few cases of them collecting from individual owners for direct damage and that was in cases of gross negligence such as a poorly anchored boat hitting a dock.

 

[SchoonerSkipper]

Which came first - the dock damage, or the boat damage?

We had the same thing happen with our marina in Florida after Hurricane Sally. Our boat was declared a total loss after the storm - the floating docks capsized, which meant all the work we’d done to prep the boat for the storm was for naught. We contend the dock failure caused the boat damage; the marina is claiming the boats caused the dock damage...

Our insurance company told us it’s becoming more and more common because some marinas are not able to get insurance covering repair/replacement of their docks. Fortunately our insurance company is covering us under the liability section of our policy; it’s not yet been resolved.

 

[Martin J]

Sounds like the construction specs were no where up to standards. One expects to be "safe" in a marina and that's what you pay for. Like a lot of stuff in the U.S. Things are built to a cost, not to a standard. Standards are lowered to meet the cost expectation.

 

[phillippeterson]

Sounds like the construction specs were no where up to standards. One expects to be "safe" in a marina and that's what you pay for. Like a lot of stuff in the U.S. Things are built to a cost, not to a standard. Standards are lowered to meet the cost expectation.

I would not EXPECT to be "safe" in a marina. I'd expect easy access to docks that did not have nails or screws protruding, clean restrooms, garbage bins that were not overflowing and deep enough water free from submerged obstacles.

I absolutely understand that a marina would hold me liable for damages to the facilities during a storm.

Now, if a marina wants to provide guaranteed protection to my vessel during storm, then it would be reasonable expect to be paying a much larger monthly fee for the enormous installed breakwater barriers, or for the exceedingly fortunate location behind natural barriers.

If I were the owner of one the less fortified marinas I would absolutely require renters to pay a monthly insurance premium to an insurance company for the protection of marina assets.

 

[trihartsfield]

Since we are looking at living on our boat for at least 6 months out of the year once I retire, is the insurance coverage the marina has part of the paperwork that you have access to when you sign up for a slip?

I am asking because I am wondering if it is something that I should request.

 

[gatesharris]

Our boat was firmly attached to the docks with triple lines. The docks failed. As far as I understand (we were never allowed to go to our boats or the marina) no boat came loose from its lines. The docks just failed and piled up the boats against the shoreline.

I was not aware that there was a tornado at the marina. Just a very large wave/surge.

According to the newspaper, the marina did not insure its interior docks.

There are some amazing aerial photos of the marina on the internet. I'll try to find one for y'all to see.

My insurance company declined the claim the next day after I notified them of the claim.

This is an interesting theory of recovery and could shift the risk of property loss (as opposed to liability loss for the circumstance when your boat's lines fail and it runs amok in the marina) to the boat owners who have boats in the slips.

Also, the marina may contract an obligation to move your boat for an impending storm, but that loss is a matter of contract liability, for which there is no insurance coverage.

This thing is a great law school exam question.

 

[psneeld]

Our boat was firmly attached to the docks with triple lines. The docks failed. As far as I understand (we were never allowed to go to our boats or the marina) no boat came loose from its lines. The docks just failed and piled up the boats against the shoreline.

I was not aware that there was a tornado at the marina. Just a very large wave/surge.

According to the newspaper, the marina did not insure its interior docks.

There are some amazing aerial photos of the marina on the internet. I'll try to find one for y'all to see.

My insurance company declined the claim the next day after I notified them of the claim.

This is an interesting theory of recovery and could shift the risk of property loss (as opposed to liability loss for the circumstance when your boat's lines fail and it runs amok in the marina) to the boat owners who have boats in the slips.

Also, the marina may contract an obligation to move your boat for an impending storm, but that loss is a matter of contract liability, for which there is no insurance coverage.

This thing is a great law school exam question.

I am having a hard time understanding what you are getting at with this statement... "Also, the marina may contract an obligation to move your boat for an impending storm, but that loss is a matter of contract liability, for which there is no insurance coverage."


Many marinas have had varied policies on moving boats once a storm watch or warning is issued for years.


Also, any reason your insurance denied the claim immediately? Did you specify something in particular? If you were insured for salvage and environmental...I would think they would be involved somewhat.

 

[gatesharris]

It's the difference between "torr" (liability) and contract. Your insurance covers torts, which is negligence. It does not cover your contractual obligations that you do not comply with.

The marina is making a claim under "liability" not "contract."

Their claim is that I was negligent, not that I did not carry out some contractual obligation.

My insurance covers my neglect to carry out some duty, not some contract that I made.

No insurance ever covers my contracts.

 

[slowgoesit]

So, 8 months since the last post. Any updates to the situation? I did see in a news article (link below) dated 15 June, 2021 that a group of the owners who had boats in the marina have filed suit against the marina, but nothing since then. Surely not everyone is under a gag order!

https://www.wect.com/2021/06/15/fed...g-boat-owners-with-repair-costs-after-isaias/

 

[FF]

“Make arrangements for the safe mooring"

To me that would be doubling up on the dock lines , and additional cleats on the dock.

If the boat breaks away from the dock and the cleats are intact my fault ,

if the dock or cleats fail , their fault.

To some English speakers the boat is "moored "tied to a dock , to others only if using a mooring anchor ball system .

 

[O C Diver]

It would seem that there is a reasonable time period requirement. If the contract stipulates removing your boat prior to a storm, there would be an expectation of being able to do it safely. If no warning is given, a person can't be reasonably expected to comply.

Ted