NDZ in Puget Sound?

[dhays]

Good point. so why create the NDZ in the first place? Feel good regulations......targeted at the recreational boater...

Yup, that is how I read it. Also, as PSneed mentioned, most of the folks don't understand the difference between direct discharge and treatment.

 

[rwidman]

Taking a dump in a bucket or over the side is perfectly legal.....sad but true.

When I say using a bucket, I mean dump it overboard after use. Have you ever peed in a bucket and dumped it overboard or peed off the back of your fishing boat?

I believe I posted this somewhere in this thread, but peeing or pooping in a bucket and dumping it overboard ("bucket and chuck it") is against the law because the bucket would be considered an MSD. Peeing or pooping directly overboard is not illegal as far as boating sanitation laws are concerned. They are two different acts (with the same result of course).

My comment on using the bucket was to get around someone boarding your boat and putting dye in your boat's head.

Now think about this: People must pee and poop. It's a fact of life. You can't tell yourself or someone else not to poop. If push comes to shove, would you rather have ground up poop and paper from a holding tank or turds and brown stained paper floating around the harbor?

 

[Bigsfish]

Since I boat in south Florida and the Bahamas it's easy to jump in the water and take care of business. I use to have a black bucket for doing that stuff but I was told by the marine patrol the bucket would be illegal.

 

[markpierce]

I pay $20 a month for someone to come by and pumpout my blackwater tank, whose contents usually contains a couple of gallons of water with some urine within. It is rediculous! The other option would make a separate trip to the local pumpout station and I could personally deal with the local bacteria.

While dumping one's toilet waste in a marina or in closed waters is a definite no-no, I don't see the harm in dumping minimal human waste directly into open waters.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

While dumping one's toilet waste in a marina or in closed waters is a definite no-no, I don't see the harm in dumping minimal human waste directly into open waters.

You can dump legally 3nm out in open water.....

 

[rwidman]

You can dump legally 3nm out in open water.....

Well, that's the USA and in some places it's more than three miles.

The real question is, how do you know when you're 3 miles off shore? You might be 2.9 miles offshore. You might be actually off a peninsula. Or can you be closer if you're off the entrance to a cove or bay?

How could you prove you are at least three miles offshore or how could a LEO prove you weren't?

For that matter, how could a LEO prove you emptied your holding tank? Collect evidence? A bucket of poop? It might have been your bilge pump he saw the discharge from. Or your galley sink. Maybe the shower sump?

And off course, who would be dumb enough to empty their holding tank with a LEO close enough to see them do it?

 

[hollywood8118]

Well, that's the USA and in some places it's more than three miles.

The real question is, how do you know when you're 3 miles off shore? You might be 2.9 miles offshore. You might be actually off a peninsula. Or can you be closer if you're off the entrance to a cove or bay?

How could you prove you are at least three miles offshore or how could a LEO prove you weren't?

For that matter, how could a LEO prove you emptied your holding tank? Collect evidence? A bucket of poop? It might have been your bilge pump he saw the discharge from. Or your galley sink. Maybe the shower sump?

And off course, who would be dumb enough to empty their holding tank with a LEO close enough to see them do it?

go out 5 miles.. pump away cop or not..
unless your one of those morons that goes 50 in a 55 when they see a cop!
HOLLYWOOD

 

[dhays]

Well, that's the USA and in some places it's more than three miles.

The real question is, how do you know when you're 3 miles off shore? You might be 2.9 miles offshore. You might be actually off a peninsula. Or can you be closer if you're off the entrance to a cove or bay?

How could you prove you are at least three miles offshore or how could a LEO prove you weren't?

For that matter, how could a LEO prove you emptied your holding tank? Collect evidence? A bucket of poop? It might have been your bilge pump he saw the discharge from. Or your galley sink. Maybe the shower sump?

And off course, who would be dumb enough to empty their holding tank with a LEO close enough to see them do it?

For me the issue isn't about getting caught. I generally try to obey the laws simply because that is what I was taught to do. I'm too young to have been a 60's radical.

 

[psneeld]

My charts show the 3 mile territorial limit line...taking into account the shoreline profile.

With GPS, Radar, and depthfinder....and a 0.1 NM safety factor, pretty easy to know when it is safe to dump...easy navigation stuff.

If nervous, save your track.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Update on Puget Sound NDZ

This from RBAW. It would appear we have a small victory?

Update on No Discharge Zone for ALL of Puget Sound

Original message --------
From: Wayne Gilham <wgilham@harbornet.com>
Date: 10/31/2017 8:34 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 'Steve Finney' <stevefinney@comcast.net>
Subject: Progress on NDZ issue !


Heartening news -- Charlie Costanzo of American Waterways Operators (lead on the NDZ fight) advised on Friday:

“We won our hearing before Thurston County Superior Court today. Congratulations, James Tupper and the Tupper Mack Wells team (lawyers)! This means that a judge has determined that the Pollution Control Hearings Board has jurisdiction in this case, and therefore MUST review Ecology’s Certificate of Need, as we have requested. We should prepare for Ecology to appeal but our victory today goes a long way towards demonstrating that our challenge on the Certificate question is alive and well.”

This now gives the Marine Alliance (of which RBAW is a part, with small contributions only as authorized by our Board toward the legal expense, and always a signatory for such actions) a “day in Court” in front of this three-man Hearing Board, to “scientifically” argue the case that there IS NO NEED for an All-Puget-Sound NDZ – this hearing board DOES have the legal right to overturn our State Department of Ecology’s “Certificate of Need”, and yes, absent a valid Certificate of Need, then EPA would have to rescind the authorization for the State to establish such a huge NDZ.

Stay tuned….


Regards,
Wayne Gilham
President RBAW
Tacoma WA
cell: 253 318 9873

 

[porman]

Hooray. Thanks for the update Tom.