NDZ in Puget Sound?

[drb1025]

You got that right. I just read in the paper that Seattle is going to have a measure on the ballot for their next election to spend $275 MILLION over the next five years to take care of the homeless in Seattle.

Think about that for a moment---According to Wikipedia...
"There are at least 2,942 people in Seattle each night who are unsheltered."

So lets take that number and divide it into the $275,000,000 and that comes out to a whopping $93,475 over the five year period. What the fugg are they going to do, build them each a condo somewhere?

This is how nuts the libtards in Seattle think. Why not take that $275,000,000 and do something worthwhile with half of it, like use it to improve schools or something.

Fuggin idiots!

You guys should move to Seattle and make some changes.

 

[BandB]

You guys should move to Seattle and make some changes.

You make an excellent point as to who decides how Seattle spends their money. Not my right or place.

Back to the NDZ, it's obviously a situation in a bunch of complexities and ambiguities. It's like many things at their outset where people have somewhere they hope to get but no solid plan for how to get there.

We were surprised at the lack of pump out stations compared to other areas. I noticed Washington had a Clean Marina Certification although only about 50 marinas part of it. So, I reviewed that program and I was shocked that it contained no requirement for a pump out station or service. You say all the things you aren't going to do but then don't provide an alternative to boats for their sewage.

So, I looked at Florida's program for comparative purposes. Florida has 379 "Clean" facilities. They do require pump out. They also have a grant program for pump out stations.

My point is that I do understand the difficulty in conforming to good practices in Washington. I may overestimate compliance, but it appears to me in areas that have plenty of cheap and/or free pump-out stations the vast majority of boats comply.

I note that Key West started trying hard to enforce pumping out. However, Monroe County (Key West) has a boat that services anchored or moored vessels and 30 marinas have pump out stations. The boat is pumping out nearly 300,000 gallons a year. Not huge when compared to other waste, but it's an area that has taken steps to make it easy to comply.

 

[BandB]

I noticed one other thing on the Washington clean marina program. There is no prohibition on cleaning bottoms of boats with hard bottom paint. It's only ablative or anything that scrapes paint off. Marinas may be prohibiting all but they aren't required to.

 

[dhays]

Very sorry to hear that the pump-outs in Oly are out of commission. Whenever I run into this, I send a note to the State to let them know. I will say that it is a lot easier to find functioning pump-outs than it used to be. Still not as easy as it needs to be.

As for the political rants from my right-wing friends.... Yeah, Seattle has kind of gone off the deep end and our Governor is an idiot. However, just because they are morons doesn't mean that all of their policies are completely wrong.

 

[dhays]

I noticed one other thing on the Washington clean marina program. There is no prohibition on cleaning bottoms of boats with hard bottom paint. It's only ablative or anything that scrapes paint off. Marinas may be prohibiting all but they aren't required to.

Yeah, you can scrub the bottom of your boat if it has a hard paint provided the boat is in the water. As soon as you raise the boat out of the water and suspend it over land, then you can't do it without treating the run off as toxic. Does it make sense? Not particularly, but I can see the reason behind it.

In the water you are pretty much limited to scrubbing by a diver. On the hard, you can scrub, pressure wash, scrape, sand, bead blast etc.... All of these can kick off a lot more toxins than simply scrubbing a hard paint in the water. There is also the problem of the same yard doing different things. Very hard to vary the runoff treatment depending on the task.

 

[ktdtx]

Well somebody in WA State keeps voting for those who regulate things like NDZ, pass marijuana laws, implement egregious boat taxes and support sanctuary cities. Don't have an answer but the majority has unfortunately ruled.

The problem might be they legalized marijuana first and then all the others seemed like good ideas.

 

[Larry M]

Come on folks, rein it. We don't want to move it to OTF.

 

[78puget-trawler]

You guys should move to Seattle and make some changes.

I gave up on my hometown in 1989, its beyond saving.


As the OP of this thread I don't mind if it gets off topic with politics, its still very relevant to the discussion.

 

[BandB]

I gave up on my hometown in 1989, its beyond saving.


As the OP of this thread I don't mind if it gets off topic with politics, its still very relevant to the discussion.

If you want politics then open it in the Off Topic forums, or OTDE.

 

[mramoo]

The reason that Washington is the way it is now, is because of all those californians that have moved in......

 

[78puget-trawler]

If you want politics then open it in the Off Topic forums, or OTDE.

And I am saying don't worry about it.. who cares? My thread, if you don't like the politics here don't read it.

 

[BandB]

And I am saying don't worry about it.. who cares? My thread, if you don't like the politics here don't read it.

It's not what I like or dislike. It's the forum rules that led me to suggest that. They're what control what belongs where.

 

[mramoo]

The NDZ in Puget Sound IS a political topic

 

[BruceK]

Starting a thread doesn`t mean you own or control it, you are a contributor, like everyone else.
OTDE would be better. Can`t imagine why "Resistance" is still in OT and not OTDE. Probably because neither normally gets moderated.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Well I know I don't own it but do feel as the OP who had just stated not minding a bit of drift, that others getting peeved seems off the mark. Now if a mod feels the need to move it well have at it, but I don't really feel its warranted.

 

[Peter B]

Well, you're right, we don't want to leap in and move or edit threads every time someone vents a bit of steam, as you are adults on here, right..? But things are sailing close to the wind here, so please consider...or to it will go...

 

[sunchaser]

The implementation of an unworkable NDZ in Puget Sound is not unusual as large population areas turn their backs on recreational boating. The term "sustainable development" has pretty well taken over the thinking of regulators and governments throughout the world.

Focusing on Seattle, the development of South Lake Union should be a warning sign for the marinas on the east and west sides of Lake Union. The land is simply to valuable to have it adorned by old decrepit marinas. The newer marinas around Seattle have pretty good sewage treatment setups.

Hopefully this reality will move to other slow reacting marinas around Puget Sound. These older lazy thinking marinas around Puget Sound need to get with it and install the right sewage systems. Not only are these old marinas caught in a tug of war but so to are other marine support activities such as sewage treatment for cruisers away from their marinas.

None of this march towards sustainable land use has been unforeseen in Puget Sound. With the current Marina owners in Puget Sound and especially Lake Union sitting on virtual gold mines, recreational boating is not in the long term picture. Today's Marina is tomorrow's high rise.

To an out of towner like me, the big question is where will the boats afloat shows move to?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So I leave Seattle for the San Juans. My poop tank is full because the pumpouts are out of service. How are they going to know that you pulled the handle and dumped overboard?


There is a place in California that requires a person to board your boat once you enter the bay to deposit a special dye tablet into your holding tank. If you dump overboard, they can trace it.....

 

[drb1025]

So I leave Seattle for the San Juans. My poop tank is full because the pumpouts are out of service. How are they going to know that you pulled the handle and dumped overboard?


There is a place in California that requires a person to board your boat once you enter the bay to deposit a special dye tablet into your holding tank. If you dump overboard, they can trace it.....

I don't think they would notice another 20 gallons.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...fix-to-treatment-plants-katrina-scale-damage/

 

[78puget-trawler]

Amazing isn't it?!?!

 

[GFC]

Focusing on Seattle, the development of South Lake Union should be a warning sign for the marinas on the east and west sides of Lake Union. The land is simply to valuable to have it adorned by old decrepit marinas. The newer marinas around Seattle have pretty good sewage treatment setups.

Hopefully this reality will move to other slow reacting marinas around Puget Sound. These older lazy thinking marinas around Puget Sound need to get with it and install the right sewage systems. Not only are these old marinas caught in a tug of war but so to are other marine support activities such as sewage treatment for cruisers away from their marinas.

Tom, you are spot on about the old marinas not getting with the program. The surprising thing is there is a TON of money available through the state to outfit marinas with great pump stations.

We got one installed at our yacht club a couple of years ago, all for free thanks to the state. It's a great system and it empties even large tanks in no time at all.

 

[hollywood8118]

This proposed ban is as big of a load of crap as you can get... why they pick on the boaters is the left thinks that any progress toward their goal is good.. not matter that is it really is just a grain of sand in a hay stack.. the Seattle sewage treatment plant dumps millions of gallons a day for weeks into the sound and it is fine because it is a "accident". One thing that we have seen in the past is that the Washington Dept of Ecology does what ever they want and it does not take voters approval to enact a lot of laws they have inacted as they call them regulations.

I personally attended a public meeting where the head of the department stated that it was his personal agenda to not allow houses to be built close to the sound so when he paddles his kayak around he doesn't have to see houses. I wanted to ask him where he paddles so I could run him over with my trawler so I dont have to look at kayak's when I am out boating.. why is his desire any more important than mine.

The WADOE spends millions on research but they never came up with any data that proved homes closer than 150' to Puget Sound was detremental... they passed it to law anyway... then my County being fervent tree huggers added a further 15' setback... just plain stupid.

Many like I will continue to dump sewage in the open parts of the sound as there is no proof it makes a bit of a difference.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[sunchaser]

Tom, you are spot on about the old marinas not getting with the program. The surprising thing is there is a TON of money available through the state to outfit marinas with great pump stations.

We got one installed at our yacht club a couple of years ago, all for free thanks to the state. It's a great system and it empties even large tanks in no time at all.

Your yacht club is located in WA. The money should be available in Puget Sound. Member interest made it work for you. This move is especially important on the rivers. D Hayes and others in Puget Sound should start bitching at their marinas to do the same if they are intent on using a pump out. Without these demands and local initiatives for pump outs, no progress will be made.

Hollywood is correct, elected and appointed weasels with little real knowledge guide the regulatory ship. Just have to work (or dump) around them as best possible.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Tom, you are spot on about the old marinas not getting with the program. The surprising thing is there is a TON of money available through the state to outfit marinas with great pump stations.

We got one installed at our yacht club a couple of years ago, all for free thanks to the state. It's a great system and it empties even large tanks in no time at all.

I would correct one thing, "all free thanks to the state", should read all free thanks to the taxpayer.

 

[dhays]

Your yacht club is located in WA. The money should be available in Puget Sound. Member interest made it work for you. This move is especially important on the rivers. D Hayes and others in Puget Sound should start bitching at their marinas to do the same if they are intent on using a pump out. Without these demands and local initiatives for pump outs, no progress will be made.

Hollywood is correct, elected and appointed weasels with little real knowledge guide the regulatory ship. Just have to work (or dump) around them as best possible.

FWIW, I did complain a lot to the state after the law was passed banning overboard dumping yet there were no functional pump-outs to be found. The situation has improved dramatically from what it was. I have complained about the pumpout at Percival's landing in the past and will again the next time I am down in Oly if it isn't fixed.

Right now, there are two pump-outs in my home harbor, both free to use and maintained by the City. They were put in with at least partial state funding. I once when to one of the pump outs on a weekend evening and it wasn't working. I called the phone number listed and a Gig Harbor City employee answered. Despite the fact that there is another one a half mile further in the harbor, he was down at the dock in 10 minutes, fixed it, and I was able to do my business and be on my way. There is another pump-out by the Pt. Defiance ferry dock that always is working as well.

I have no issue with being required to have a holding tank and use it in Puget Sound PROVIDED there are adequate pump-out facilities. I do have a problem with banning the use of marine treatment systems, which is what they are going to do shortly.

For SeaDuction, there are plenty of pumpouts between Seattle and the San Juans. Easy to stop and use one. Short of that, head to the islands accross the straits on an ebb tide and dump out in the middle. Not legal, but it wouldn't bother me.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Break in the sun yesterday on the hard. 1st coat of Interlux Fiberglass Bottomkote NT. Heavy with copper applied to ASD beautiful bottom!!!! The cooper in the paint is awesome!!

 

[fstbttms]

There is a place in California that requires a person to board your boat once you enter the bay to deposit a special dye tablet into your holding tank. If you dump overboard, they can trace it.....

Yeah, it's a popular and beautiful harbor called Avalon on Catalina Island. Thanks to so many people fouling the harbor with their sh*t, now everybody has to jump through hoops. But I never cease to be amazed at how many boaters feel the rules (or even common decency) shouldn't apply to them.

 

[JustBob]

And they worry about recreational boats?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/seattle-plant-failure-dumps-millions-135608582.html

All the boats we have couldn't unload this month in 100 years.

 

[dhays]

Yeah, it's a popular and beautiful harbor called Avalon on Catalina Island. Thanks to so many people fouling the harbor with their sh*t, now everybody has to jump through hoops. But I never cease to be amazed at how many boaters feel the rules (or even common decency) shouldn't apply to them.

Not just boaters I'm afraid.

 

[psneeld]

NDZS are laughable when the most popular system has repeatedly shown it cleans the water of bacteria better than what it takes in.

Sure there are solids...but in the big scheme of things...gimme a break.

It makes sense to penalize people who spend a bundle to help things while glossing over the real problems.