$20 to dock your dinghy for dinner.

[hmason]

If I assume the dinghy dock can accommodate 10 dinghies and 10 folks use it during the course of a day and evening the marina collects $200. The dinghies normally use one dock cleat to tie to and quite often more than 1 ties to a cleat. 10 dinghies use very little dock space. Assuming the Marina charges $3/foot for a yacht to stay overnight one could dock a 67’ yacht for that price. I think Ted is correct, $5 is fair, $10 is reasonable but $20 for a couple of hours is way out of line to my thinking.

 

[skyhawk]

I looked it up on the map. looks like that restaurant is either part of the marina, or in it...perhaps leasing the building from them!
Reading the thread I had been assuming it was across the street....something like that.

Rusty Hooks Dockside Grill right next door, looks to have their own dock. Go there instead!

 

[rgano]

Solution to Ted's issue: Get acquainted with a marina resident and moor your dink to his boat for the duration of your dinner and thumb your nose at the marina.

In the early 1990's I enjoyed taking my trawler on a 65-mile run down the GIWW to the annual Apalachicola Florida Seafood Festival in early November. It was small town USA at its best complete with hometown style parade on Saturday morning. My surrogate parents in their Bristol 42 trawler moored next to me in Panama City would head on down there on Wednesday and secure a spot along the city's long pier which formed a part of a good sized basin. I would take Friday off and head on down to raft out alongside them,k and we'd head home on Sunday. A thoroughly enjoyable time.

Some years later, the city for some unaccountable reason banned rafting out; so, I anchored out in the river and ran in with the dink. Then one fine day, I arrived in my dink to pull up on the grassy shore in the vicinity of the boat ramp in the basin, and an official person walked up and charged me 15 bucks to moor there. Good bye to all that forever as I was thoroughly browned off.

 

[Benthic2]

People who are looking at this from the diner's viewpoint may have the wrong perspective. Instead of seeing this as another obstacle between you and your meal....look at this as someone who has invested in a resource and is entitled to use it as he sees fit. It is not his responsibility to facilitate your feeding. If you must vent some angst it should be towards the restaurant for not being able to service its waterborn clientele, not the dock owner trying to maximize his investment. I suppose the restaurant could contract with the dock owner for $200/night but then the meal prices will go up ( or food quality down).

Why do any of you feel entitled to have any input in the dock owners pricing and say that $5 is fair but $20 is not ? I have found this thread very surprising.

 

[BandB]

I think this is a little bit of the millionaires getting driven out of town by the billionaires. It's happening in all sorts of "luxury" activities, whether it's waterfront property, skiing, boating, other prime real estate, etc. There are enough people willing to pay a lot more for these things, and businesses realizing it and capitalizing on it. The result is that many activities that were once affordable to more people have now been priced out of reach.

I think this situation is likely even more complex than realized. We read "Safe Harbor buys South Harbour Village." What does that really mean? It likely means they bought some docks and the rights to operate as a marina. However, they are likely no different than Joseph's or Rusty Hook's or Blackbeard Scuba. South Harbour Village is a major residential and condo development and then there are a few buildings and businesses. Safe Harbor is most likely a tenant like the others. I wonder if the dock off or Rusty Hook's is leased to Safe Harbour or to Rusty Hook's. Certainly Joseph's could lease dock space if they chose to do so. Each tenant is independent. I don't believe Safe Harbor owns the buildings the others are in. I believe they all are tenants with certain privileges. I doubt seriously that the lease to SH says must provide free dinghy dockage. If Joseph's wants an agreement with Safe Harbor then they must enter into one.

Now as to value of dinghy dockage. Well, let's start with the value of a 30' transient dock space. Overnight is likely $60+ and transients may also use other services, even buy fuel. Leave that available for dinghies or for hourly docking then and need similar revenues. Could get three dinghies there at once and cover it. What if none show up then no revenues.

Now to the OP's situation. You chose to anchor out. Often that's to avoid the cost of dockage. I'm guessing your dockage when all was totaled would have been $70-90 for the night. So, the marina is out that amount. Shouldn't they at least recover a portion for you using their facilities? The boat docked beside you is paying the $70-90. Joseph's chooses not to pay. They don't give you a parking ticket to get stamped or anything. Joseph's decided anchored guests weren't worth paying for. Likely also not day guests just coming to dinner. Joseph's provides parking for land guests but not for boat guests.

So the two questions remain. First, who should pay? Can we logically agree that the marina which is getting nothing out of it should not unless required by their lease? Either you or Joseph's. Then how much? I'd say for a dinghy under 10 feet, $10, for a boat 10-30', $20, for a boat 31 ft or larger, $0.70 per foot for up to six hours. Even at $10 it's a courtesy as clearly not worth providing for the money. Restaurant customers, especially at night and especially those drinking are an inconvenience to both the marina and the rest of the marina slip holders. The marina incurs risks and responsibilities. The more I think of their exposure, of what one person falling in while returning to their dinghy would cost, the less I'm upset by $20 although my rate would still be $10.

And keep in mind, it's Joseph's that has chosen not to provide free parking.

 

[Benthic2]

Does the marina offer a launch service ?

 

[O C Diver]

To respond to some points:

The restaurant isn't going away. They do a phenomenal business. Based on the usual clientele most are senior and local. I doubt 10 percent were transient boaters and less than 5 percent came by dinghy / launch.

My information came from the dockmaster (person in charge at that time, not the harbor master). Now if I had a large vessel and was taking 6 or 8 people to dinner in a 25' launch, I probably would have been fine with $20. But it was $20 regardless of size.

BTW, they're open for transient business. On Waterway Guide they're advertising dockage cheaper than the other marinas in Southport. Obviously looking to get their Snowbird business back.

Ted

 

[rgano]

I would imagine that unless it is a waterfront property the restaurant was not built with significant traffic from anchored vessels in mind.

 

[ranger58sb]

Per their website though they are still not taking reservations for transient slips due to the damage.

Seems odd, although maybe a website problem versus a dockage issue. They took our reservation in early August, didn't seem to have any system glitches about that.

-Chris

 

[O C Diver]

Now to the OP's situation. You chose to anchor out. Often that's to avoid the cost of dockage. I'm guessing your dockage when all was totaled would have been $70-90 for the night. So, the marina is out that amount. Shouldn't they at least recover a portion for you using their facilities? The boat docked beside you is paying the $70-90. Joseph's chooses not to pay. They don't give you a parking ticket to get stamped or anything. Joseph's decided anchored guests weren't worth paying for. Likely also not day guests just coming to dinner. Joseph's provides parking for land guests but not for boat guests.

The marina isn't out my dockage. If they were completely full and I anchored out, would they still be out something they couldn't provide? It seems to me that the marina is only out money when they can't provide something a customer is willing to buy.

You are correct in that the marina is entitled to something for dinghy dockage. On Waterway Guide they're advertising transient dockage $1.60 per foot. My 10' dinghy would be $16 for the whole night! So yes, $5 would have been fine; $10 would have been "whatever "; $20 is "we don't want you ".

I don't need my parking comped by the restaurant, I expect the marina to charge a reasonable fee to encourage me to transient dock my boat there in the future.

Probably their biggest mistake was not giving the dockmaster the flexibility to turn a bad situation into something reasonable. "The rule is $20 regardless of size. Your dinghy is only 10', how about $10?"

Ted

 

[BandB]

Probably their biggest mistake was not giving the dockmaster the flexibility to turn a bad situation into something reasonable. "The rule is $20 regardless of size. Your dinghy is only 10', how about $10?"

Ted

What often happens is someone issues an order that all who dock will be charged $20 and likely no internal debate on dinghies. Message gets sent down, no one questions. Who knows if anything was lost from corporate headquarters to the dock.

 

[O C Diver]

What often happens is someone issues an order that all who dock will be charged $20 and likely no internal debate on dinghies. Message gets sent down, no one questions. Who knows if anything was lost from corporate headquarters to the dock.

My impression was corporate inflexibility was made loud and clear as I recognized the employee from previous years (before the purchase).

Ted

 

[kthoennes]

If Walmart, Amazon and the other mega operations should teach business anything, you ultimately make the most money not from a limited pool of individual high rollers who don't care much about price, but from high volume, both in people and sales. If you're a small coastal town you want as many spenders strolling your streets and having dinner as possible, big and small. You want the seven figure boaters and the ones who are price sensitive to a $20 dinghy fee. But then American business is almost always short term and short sighted. Aggressively chase $20 and kiss off millions in the long run. And eating an overhead expense to generate goodwill, almost never happens any more.

Years ago I ordered a chrome rail from Go2Marine. Big piece, with a high shipping expense due to length. They sent me the wrong diameter. I emailed and they fedex'd me the right piece, and told me to just forget shipping the other one back. I'll never forget that and as a result, I always shop them first. They ate an overhead expense and bought my goodwill (and sales) for years to follow. Will a $20 dinghy fee kill me? Certainly not, and sure, they have an overhead expense, nobody is debating that. But it'll stick in my mind.

 

[SteveK]

What often happens is someone issues an order that all who dock will be charged $20 and likely no internal debate on dinghies. Message gets sent down, no one questions. Who knows if anything was lost from corporate headquarters to the dock.

Well OK, I am willing to pay $20 Canadian but not a penny more at that dock should I ever go there.

 

[Benthic2]

..If Walmart, Amazon and the other mega operations should teach business anything, you ultimately make the most money not from a limited pool of individual high rollers who don't care much about price, but from high volume, both in people and sales. If you're a small coastal town you want as many spenders strolling your streets and having dinner as possible, big and small. You want the seven figure boaters and the ones who are price sensitive to a $20 dinghy fee. But then American business is almost always short term and short sighted. Aggressively chase $20 and kiss off millions in the long run. And eating an overhead expense to generate goodwill, almost never happens any more.....

The problem with this approach is that the beneficiary of more happy consumers roaming the streets is the town, not the owner of the dock. The owner of the dock has to keep his regular marina customers happy ( who may resent the extra foot traffic ) and maximize the perishable resource of daily dock space. If the marina runs a launch service, he may be trying to drive business to that as well.

 

[Simi 60]

The problem with this approach is that the beneficiary of more happy consumers roaming the streets is the town, not the owner of the dock. The owner of the dock has to keep his regular marina customers happy ( who may resent the extra foot traffic ) and maximize the expiring resource of daily dock space. If the marina runs a launch service, he may be trying to drive business to that as well.

The town, if they had any brains, would put in a free dinghy dock with a 4 hour limit.
Or, offer the owner of the other dock some form of recompense, say a discount on rates?

We spend our money where it's easy to spend it
If its a s**tfight or a money grab we may enjoy the area on the boat, but the area sees no money from us as we move through to resupply in areas that are easier

 

[OldDan1943]

If it is $20 for all day, a very good price. Gives you time to get more stores onboard your boat.
If it is $20 for 3 hours, not a bad price.
If it is $20 for 90 minutes..... that's enough to eat dinner, socializing as you share a meal. Then make a decision who's boat to socialize more.
Many times it is supply and demand. Lots of dingy coming in and no place to put them. So raise the price and 'shake out' a few folks.

 

[OldDan1943]

A parallel is, amusement parks will control the population within the park by raising the price of admission.
Stone Mountain Park near Atlanta GA discovered they had population problem resulting in affecting the recreation experience so they raised the price of admission...... Sadly, some of those who want and need to escape the city were priced out of the recreational experience.
Soooo, if the dingy dock is over crowded .... raise the price, it will open spaces or discourage folks from stopping at that particular marina.
The market will sort itself out, over time.
__________________

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

The restaurant could pay the marina to park thier customers dink. Parking validation ticket.

 

[DryDoc]

Interesting thread on two fronts;
--that it has garnered so much attention, clearly indicating winter is here for many.
--that blame is being dished out equally to the marina and the restaurant, when in all likely hood, the main culprits are your fellow boaters, who tie up and are gone for the day, patronizing neither the marina nor the eatery.

 

[FlyWright]

...I was able to work around paying this time. ...

How, pray tell, did you avoid paying the piper?

Curious minds want to know...especially those of us yachting on a budget!!

You can tell us...we won't tell anyone.

 

[BandB]

How, pray tell, did you avoid paying the piper?

Curious minds want to know...especially those of us yachting on a budget!!

You can tell us...we won't tell anyone.

I bet if they saw his post here, they'd regret the special dispensation.

 

[O C Diver]

I think one of the overlooked components is that the system without a fee work fine for atleast 6 years. So add a reasonable fee to keep the accountants happy. In hindsight, they temporarily cutting their transient per foot fee to get the docks full, but turn a blind eye to people who might use their facility in the future.

If I had docked at one of the other 2 marinas near by because I had assumed they weren't back to taking transients yet, would this encourage me to come back next time?

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

I bet if they saw his post here, they'd regret the special dispensation.

You assume incorrectly that the marina or an employee helped me.

Ted

 

[BruceK]

I wonder about profitability,an employee has to be there to collect, police, check, etc. Are there other reasons for the new charge? Is it to stop people using the dock while not patronizing the marina or its tenants. Or misusing the facilities.
A deal via the restaurant could help. Like the restaurant check entitling docker/diners to a lower rate.

 

[BandB]

You assume incorrectly that the marina or an employee helped me.

Ted

I don't know who helped or how. You were intentionally silent as to your methods.

 

[ksanders]

I wonder about profitability,an employee has to be there to collect, police, check, etc. Are there other reasons for the new charge? Is it to stop people using the dock while not patronizing the marina or its tenants. Or misusing the facilities.
A deal via the restaurant could help. Like the restaurant check entitling docker/diners to a lower rate.

Yes there is usually more to the story.

It is hard for me to believe that this is just targeting the people dining at the marinas restaurant.

Without knowing the facts it seems that there is a high probability that this marina was being used extensively by people that never spend a dime at the marina and the restaurant patrons were just caught up in the bigger picture issue.

 

[Simi 60]

.
--that blame is being dished out equally to the marina and the restaurant, when in all likely hood, the main culprits are your fellow boaters, who tie up and are gone for the day, patronizing neither the marina nor the eatery.

Yep, see this often enough over here we have free courtesy pontoons put in for "short stay" as in get water, take on supplies, drop off guests but people park the big boat on them for hours if not days on end at times

Pisses one off when you come in to use them and there are bell ends parked there doing the washing, washing the salt off the boat or just doing nothing in their free, personal, installed just for them marina space.

 

[O C Diver]

Yes there is usually more to the story.

It is hard for me to believe that this is just targeting the people dining at the marinas restaurant.

Without knowing the facts it seems that there is a high probability that this marina was being used extensively by people that never spend a dime at the marina and the restaurant patrons were just caught up in the bigger picture issue.

I wish I had taken a picture of the posted signs that said something to the effect of, "parking for members only, all others will be towed". It was the sign that had me seek out the dockmaster. Not sure why you would dock there if you had a slip or were on the transient dock. There are no moorings.

If it was about collecting money for parking, maybe the sign should have read, "Dinghy and Launch docking here. $20 Docking fee. See dockmaster to pay".

Hard to see a lot of people docking there to go to other businesses. Not exactly a high use retail area.



Ted

 

[BandB]

I wish I had taken a picture of the posted signs that said something to the effect of, "parking for members only, all others will be towed". It was the sign that had me seek out the dockmaster. Not sure why you would dock there if you had a slip or were on the transient dock. There are no moorings.

If it was about collecting money for parking, maybe the sign should have read, "Dinghy and Launch docking here. $20 Docking fee. See dockmaster to pay".

Hard to see a lot of people docking there to go to other businesses. Not exactly a high use retail area.

View attachment 122444

Ted

I'm thinking they may be two different things and perhaps the merchants clamped down on parking and in turn the marina on docking.