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Old 10-24-2021, 08:50 AM   #21
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so you're comparing it to parking meters. It's been a while since I used one of those, but for a parking meter you're talking what, maybe a few dollars at most? Double that to make for a profit since it's not a city thing.... still not in the league of $20.
My comparison to parking meters is not about the cost per hour. It is an observation that I used to be able to park on the street for free. Now in busy developed areas I can't. The bulk of my post is why dingy docking is not free. Not what it should cost.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:00 AM   #22
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I see arguments both ways. Like “it’s just honest capitalism “

So it’s also just capitalism for Atlas to shrug, and just say no and let lower demand sort it all out.

I agree with OC Diver. Just say no and give them no more thought
Yes we can always vote with our wallets. I often do. I will try to avoid marinas, or any business for that matter, that charge what I feel is too much. However $20 to stop at a favorite restaurant a few times a year? I'd be annoyed but I'd pay it. Becuase I lose more by not stopping than the marina does. I lose a good evening with spouse and friends at a favorite place. The marina just has to wait for the next dingy to come tie up and pay the fee.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:12 AM   #23
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Marinas could take a page from the small airport operators. The problem was that small airplanes were landing, borrowing a car to attend a business meeting or have lunch, use the facilities and then not buy anything. A common practice now at small airports is to charge a parking fee that will be waved with a minimum fuel purchase.

It seems that this restaurant could work a deal with the marina where parking could be reimbursed to the marina when a validated receipt for meal purchase were presented.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:33 AM   #24
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$20.00 to tie up a dinghy for a couple of hours does seem to be an indirect way of saying, "we'd rather you just stayed away." I get it that marina and boatyard owners are under enormous pressure to sell out to residential developers, though. The economics of commercial waterfront property have changed radically since the 1970s.

This may have grown out of a beef between the restaurant and the marina management. If so, PPandE's idea might help calm the roiled waters:

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It seems that this restaurant could work a deal with the marina where parking could be reimbursed to the marina when a validated receipt for meal purchase were presented.
Or maybe transient boaters don't make up enough of Joseph's business to justify the cost.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:54 AM   #25
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Maybe with all the increases in boat insurance, marinas are being hit and one factor maybe non registered people on the grounds.

The world has become more complicated than many of us like and being nickeled and dimed is just part of it.

But it is one more reason to shift focus away from cruising and dining out in places where I don't get the bang for the buck.
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:39 AM   #26
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Yes we can always vote with our wallets. I often do. I will try to avoid marinas, or any business for that matter, that charge what I feel is too much. However $20 to stop at a favorite restaurant a few times a year? I'd be annoyed but I'd pay it. Becuase I lose more by not stopping than the marina does. I lose a good evening with spouse and friends at a favorite place. The marina just has to wait for the next dingy to come tie up and pay the fee.
Then go. No harm no foul.

If the restaurant feels harmed they will figure something out. Let the market forces do their work.
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:45 AM   #27
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The same silly game has been played in Silva Bay, where the big marina instituted a charge for any dinghy tie up. When the next marina over welcomed dinghy tie ups for no charge, no surprise, that the big one had to follow suit a short while later.
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:48 AM   #28
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Thinking about dingy docks in general, and this is a broader thought than just dinner.

People use your dock.
They dump their trash in your trash bin
They use your water
They use your toilets
They might even use your shower facilities if you don't lock them up.

Do they really bring any revenue into your marina? No they do not. They anchor their boat because they do not want to pay for a slip.

I see this as an "issue" with cruisers. They want everything for free.

That private marina is a business. As a business it only exists to make money for it's owners.

Yes $20 for dinner sounds high, I agree. Maybe the marina next door only charges $5. Maybe the municipal marina a mile away is free.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:00 AM   #29
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I think this is a little bit of the millionaires getting driven out of town by the billionaires. It's happening in all sorts of "luxury" activities, whether it's waterfront property, skiing, boating, other prime real estate, etc. There are enough people willing to pay a lot more for these things, and businesses realizing it and capitalizing on it. The result is that many activities that were once affordable to more people have now been priced out of reach.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:15 AM   #30
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Indeed, we've had very good meals there, a couple of times as we've passed through... including this most recent time.




When we stopped there in early August they were fully operational, even if still working on some dock plumbing and some cosmetic concrete. The new piles look to be about a mile high. Dock water at the pedestals wasn't yet working, but they had a bazillion hoses strung out along the new docks so everyone could get fresh water.

-Chris
Per their website though they are still not taking reservations for transient slips due to the damage.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:40 AM   #31
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If I assume the dinghy dock can accommodate 10 dinghies and 10 folks use it during the course of a day and evening the marina collects $200. The dinghies normally use one dock cleat to tie to and quite often more than 1 ties to a cleat. 10 dinghies use very little dock space. Assuming the Marina charges $3/foot for a yacht to stay overnight one could dock a 67’ yacht for that price. I think Ted is correct, $5 is fair, $10 is reasonable but $20 for a couple of hours is way out of line to my thinking.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:59 AM   #32
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I looked it up on the map. looks like that restaurant is either part of the marina, or in it...perhaps leasing the building from them!
Reading the thread I had been assuming it was across the street....something like that.

Rusty Hooks Dockside Grill right next door, looks to have their own dock. Go there instead!
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:06 PM   #33
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Solution to Ted's issue: Get acquainted with a marina resident and moor your dink to his boat for the duration of your dinner and thumb your nose at the marina.

In the early 1990's I enjoyed taking my trawler on a 65-mile run down the GIWW to the annual Apalachicola Florida Seafood Festival in early November. It was small town USA at its best complete with hometown style parade on Saturday morning. My surrogate parents in their Bristol 42 trawler moored next to me in Panama City would head on down there on Wednesday and secure a spot along the city's long pier which formed a part of a good sized basin. I would take Friday off and head on down to raft out alongside them,k and we'd head home on Sunday. A thoroughly enjoyable time.

Some years later, the city for some unaccountable reason banned rafting out; so, I anchored out in the river and ran in with the dink. Then one fine day, I arrived in my dink to pull up on the grassy shore in the vicinity of the boat ramp in the basin, and an official person walked up and charged me 15 bucks to moor there. Good bye to all that forever as I was thoroughly browned off.
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:23 PM   #34
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People who are looking at this from the diner's viewpoint may have the wrong perspective. Instead of seeing this as another obstacle between you and your meal....look at this as someone who has invested in a resource and is entitled to use it as he sees fit. It is not his responsibility to facilitate your feeding. If you must vent some angst it should be towards the restaurant for not being able to service its waterborn clientele, not the dock owner trying to maximize his investment. I suppose the restaurant could contract with the dock owner for $200/night but then the meal prices will go up ( or food quality down).

Why do any of you feel entitled to have any input in the dock owners pricing and say that $5 is fair but $20 is not ? I have found this thread very surprising.
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:28 PM   #35
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I think this is a little bit of the millionaires getting driven out of town by the billionaires. It's happening in all sorts of "luxury" activities, whether it's waterfront property, skiing, boating, other prime real estate, etc. There are enough people willing to pay a lot more for these things, and businesses realizing it and capitalizing on it. The result is that many activities that were once affordable to more people have now been priced out of reach.
I think this situation is likely even more complex than realized. We read "Safe Harbor buys South Harbour Village." What does that really mean? It likely means they bought some docks and the rights to operate as a marina. However, they are likely no different than Joseph's or Rusty Hook's or Blackbeard Scuba. South Harbour Village is a major residential and condo development and then there are a few buildings and businesses. Safe Harbor is most likely a tenant like the others. I wonder if the dock off or Rusty Hook's is leased to Safe Harbour or to Rusty Hook's. Certainly Joseph's could lease dock space if they chose to do so. Each tenant is independent. I don't believe Safe Harbor owns the buildings the others are in. I believe they all are tenants with certain privileges. I doubt seriously that the lease to SH says must provide free dinghy dockage. If Joseph's wants an agreement with Safe Harbor then they must enter into one.

Now as to value of dinghy dockage. Well, let's start with the value of a 30' transient dock space. Overnight is likely $60+ and transients may also use other services, even buy fuel. Leave that available for dinghies or for hourly docking then and need similar revenues. Could get three dinghies there at once and cover it. What if none show up then no revenues.

Now to the OP's situation. You chose to anchor out. Often that's to avoid the cost of dockage. I'm guessing your dockage when all was totaled would have been $70-90 for the night. So, the marina is out that amount. Shouldn't they at least recover a portion for you using their facilities? The boat docked beside you is paying the $70-90. Joseph's chooses not to pay. They don't give you a parking ticket to get stamped or anything. Joseph's decided anchored guests weren't worth paying for. Likely also not day guests just coming to dinner. Joseph's provides parking for land guests but not for boat guests.

So the two questions remain. First, who should pay? Can we logically agree that the marina which is getting nothing out of it should not unless required by their lease? Either you or Joseph's. Then how much? I'd say for a dinghy under 10 feet, $10, for a boat 10-30', $20, for a boat 31 ft or larger, $0.70 per foot for up to six hours. Even at $10 it's a courtesy as clearly not worth providing for the money. Restaurant customers, especially at night and especially those drinking are an inconvenience to both the marina and the rest of the marina slip holders. The marina incurs risks and responsibilities. The more I think of their exposure, of what one person falling in while returning to their dinghy would cost, the less I'm upset by $20 although my rate would still be $10.

And keep in mind, it's Joseph's that has chosen not to provide free parking.
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:40 PM   #36
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Does the marina offer a launch service ?
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:46 PM   #37
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To respond to some points:

The restaurant isn't going away. They do a phenomenal business. Based on the usual clientele most are senior and local. I doubt 10 percent were transient boaters and less than 5 percent came by dinghy / launch.

My information came from the dockmaster (person in charge at that time, not the harbor master). Now if I had a large vessel and was taking 6 or 8 people to dinner in a 25' launch, I probably would have been fine with $20. But it was $20 regardless of size.

BTW, they're open for transient business. On Waterway Guide they're advertising dockage cheaper than the other marinas in Southport. Obviously looking to get their Snowbird business back.

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Old 10-24-2021, 01:01 PM   #38
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I would imagine that unless it is a waterfront property the restaurant was not built with significant traffic from anchored vessels in mind.
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Old 10-24-2021, 01:11 PM   #39
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Per their website though they are still not taking reservations for transient slips due to the damage.

Seems odd, although maybe a website problem versus a dockage issue. They took our reservation in early August, didn't seem to have any system glitches about that.

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Old 10-24-2021, 01:45 PM   #40
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Now to the OP's situation. You chose to anchor out. Often that's to avoid the cost of dockage. I'm guessing your dockage when all was totaled would have been $70-90 for the night. So, the marina is out that amount. Shouldn't they at least recover a portion for you using their facilities? The boat docked beside you is paying the $70-90. Joseph's chooses not to pay. They don't give you a parking ticket to get stamped or anything. Joseph's decided anchored guests weren't worth paying for. Likely also not day guests just coming to dinner. Joseph's provides parking for land guests but not for boat guests.
The marina isn't out my dockage. If they were completely full and I anchored out, would they still be out something they couldn't provide? It seems to me that the marina is only out money when they can't provide something a customer is willing to buy.

You are correct in that the marina is entitled to something for dinghy dockage. On Waterway Guide they're advertising transient dockage $1.60 per foot. My 10' dinghy would be $16 for the whole night! So yes, $5 would have been fine; $10 would have been "whatever "; $20 is "we don't want you ".

I don't need my parking comped by the restaurant, I expect the marina to charge a reasonable fee to encourage me to transient dock my boat there in the future.

Probably their biggest mistake was not giving the dockmaster the flexibility to turn a bad situation into something reasonable. "The rule is $20 regardless of size. Your dinghy is only 10', how about $10?"

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